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This morning I began working on something new. I did something unusual for me; I used my default template to start the file. I had made it long ago with a large number of tracks, so I trimmed them down to the few that I needed for this project, set up my routing, and saved.

This is unusual, because I rarely use templates. Ordinarily, I pick out a project that most resembles the one I'm about to work on, duplicate it, rename it, and customize it. I duplicate the track layouts, then delete the old chunks with data. This method just saves me a lot of time when there are a lot of tracks. The fact is, in 25+ years of DP, I have rarely started a file from scratch. Some of my files originated 25 years ago and have been copied, modified and saved so many times that I can't even tell you where they came from. So, one of my weakest areas in DP is actually the one that every beginner faces: set-up. Ok, I'm no beginner, and I'm perfectly capable of setting things up, but by "weakness," I mean that I'm just insecure in the sense of wondering if there is something I missed, especially if something goes wrong.

Immediately I started having problems. Two problems to be specific. I could not get any output from my MOTU 896mk3 hybrid. I'm recording MIDI with a Yamaha WX5, driving a VSL dimension cello, so there are plenty of places that something could be going wrong. So, I recorded a little bit, silently, and found that indeed it was receiving the WX5; my MIDI track appeared filled with notes and controllers, so I knew that was working properly. But why did I not hear it? It was record enabled. It was in audible mode. I should have heard something.

So, I played it back. Still no sound. I put it on a loop and began working in CueMix, because there was clearly output happening on the 896's meters. It wasn't going through the speakers, though. After some experimentation, I found that if I engaged an effect in CueMix, such as reverb (in CueMix FX), and adjusted the send and return, and other controls, I could hear the audio going through the effect.

Ok, so here is how it stands: 1) new file made from old template. 2) 896mk3 hearing it but not passing the audio to a track. 3) FX (Reverb in CueMix) passed the audio to the speakers.

But now there is another problem. When I play, there is no MIDI instrument. It's as if I don't have the MIDI track record-enabled, or else Audible Mode is off. But both are on. Why would it not monitor my playing? It records MIDI if I start recording. It plays on playback. But it won't listen to me when I'm playing between takes, and there is NO SOUND when I'm recording. I rebuilt my bundles and looked everywhere for what I was missing.

Don't stress over this. I solved the problem, but not in the way you probably are expecting. I fiddled with this for about 2 hours. Finally I realized that precious work time was slipping away. I closed the file, threw it out, and I opened a new EMPTY file. NOTHING in it. No templates, no chunks, no instruments; nada. In 5 minutes I had all the tracks I needed, all the routing completed, and it monitored my playing between takes and while recording. Audio passed through the 896mk3 correctly. Everything worked.

Moral of story: know when to hold, and know when to fold. I should have folded up that file after about 10 minutes when I could see that things were not working right. But my insecurity that "maybe I missed something... maybe there are new controls... maybe I've completely forgotten all that I know..." is what got me. I was determined to force that file to work. I was going to go over every possible setting, bundles, routing, all of CueMix FX, and everything until I figured out what was wrong. I finally realized I was licked, kicked out that file, deleted it in the Finder, emptied the Trash, and I started over.

If I had done that in the first place, I would have gotten an hour and 55 minutes of extra work time. But I sat there and fiddled and fiddled and fiddled until I was about to pull out my hair. Folks, don't be insecure. When it's not working, toss it and start over. It'll be faster than trying to figure out what's wrong with your template.

I now think I understand the problem. Those templates were made probably 10 to 15 years ago. I've since replaced my 896 with the 896mk3, not to mention a new Mac Pro (15 years ago I was probably using a Mirror Door G4 PowerMac tower, and I've been through at least two towers since then), and then there's the 32 bit to 64 bit thing, and OSX 10.9.4 beta, DP 8.06, and who knows what all? The template just didn't know what to do! It's remarkable that I can open ancient files and they'll work, but I think DP runs a conversion utility on them when opening them. Apparently it doesn't do that with templates.

So that's my tale. Don't waste your time busting your head against the wall. Start over!

Shooshie

Thanks for sharing that Shooshie. I'd take a slightly different (but overlapping) approach.

Sometimes, something will just break. Not enough for it to take everything down, but, for example, I had some internal bussing stop working in DP8 (an earlier release). I can't theorize about what the cause was, but it was just broken. If I started a new file, it worked. So I ended up doing quite a bit of pasting between the broken file and the new file.

It is interesting that sometimes we'll take responsibility for user error. My experience has been that me and software are about 50/50 as far as where blame can be placed. If I give something sufficient time to prove that I'm doing everything I can to cover my bases (dot my i's, etc.) then I come here to this forum.

In a rather perverse way, I'm glad this stuff happens to you too. It's not just me. Thanks for taking the time to write this.

I appreciate what you shared Shooshie. And Stubb, I concur, sometimes things just break. When that happens we have to remember to do what Shoosh says and fold. Return to drawing board or safe template. Replace prefs.

I go nuts when the response of the engineer is to try to 'fix' the problem amidst the creative flow. Rather than retreat and regroup, and get back into writing, trking asap. Yet, we have all fallen prey to the 'figure it out now' thing.

Slightly off topic here, but this one really ticked me off.

A few years back I did a huge project (163 songs) with some MIDI drum tracks. One song would randomly drop MIDI notes on every pass. I couldn't even freeze the drum tracks. I tried re-creating it from scratch. No luck. Yet, all the other songs worked fine. Jokingly the client said, "It doesn't like the name." So, just for fun I changed the name from Last Waltz to Not The First Waltz. It worked fine after that. Huh?

Phil

Phil O wrote:Slightly off topic here, but this one really ticked me off.

A few years back I did a huge project (163 songs) with some MIDI drum tracks. One song would randomly drop MIDI notes on every pass. I couldn't even freeze the drum tracks. I tried re-creating it from scratch. No luck. Yet, all the other songs worked fine. Jokingly the client said, "It doesn't like the name." So, just for fun I changed the name from Last Waltz to Not The First Waltz. It worked fine after that. Huh?

Phil

Now you've got ME thinking about it. I don't think I'll sleep well tonight!

This is quite interesting as I realise I have not started a new file from scratch for years. I often get an idea when I am in an existing song - so I record something on a new chunk, save it as a new project and then weed out all the stuff from the original song (which is still existing under its own name). I remember when I first started with DP and trying to route things and sound sources etc. was difficult on a new file - and I couldn't get any sound out at first. Sometimes I forget how to do basic things but I call up an existing song and there it is - I can then copy and amend.

There is nothing more frightening to an artist than a blank canvas and to a writer a blank page. I think we can add a blank DP template to that list....

Thanks. It's been awhile since I've seen one of these behaviors, but I do remember them. I think for me it was common in DP6. I was a late adopter of both 7 and 8, so maybe I missed bug related versions.

I've been playing post-beta-tester with the AVB line, sending in odd behaviors every few days so they can get the kinks out ASAP.

Guitar Gaz wrote:This is quite interesting as I realise I have not started a new file from scratch for years. I often get an idea when I am in an existing song - so I record something on a new chunk, save it as a new project and then weed out all the stuff from the original song (which is still existing under its own name). I remember when I first started with DP and trying to route things and sound sources etc. was difficult on a new file - and I couldn't get any sound out at first. Sometimes I forget how to do basic things but I call up an existing song and there it is - I can then copy and amend.

I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who uses "speed-start." Take an existing file, chunk, or project and split it off into a new one. The "Medusa" method! It's always worked for me, but I'm starting to wonder if that has something to do with why Unlimited Undo does NOT work for me. Maybe it retains some structure from the old files that simply doesn't respond to DP correctly.

Guitar Gaz wrote:There is nothing more frightening to an artist than a blank canvas and to a writer a blank page. I think we can add a blank DP template to that list....

Oh definitely! To this day I can remember when I got my first copy of DP. I had been a Performer user, so I wasn't clueless, but suddenly I had to learn about sample buffers, studio sizes vs. RAM, audio routing, plugin delay, and many other problems unique to Digital Performer (Performer + audio), a full-fledged DAW compared to Performer, a MIDI sequencer. I finally stopped trying to create a new file, and I just took the manual to breakfast at the Gold Rush Cafe, here in Dallas, which is where a lot of pro-musicians eat. I sat there and read the first few chapters before going back to work, and it occurred to me that beginning on a DAW must be terrifying for the total novice. I was an experienced MIDI sequencer composer/arranger/performer, and this new digital audio stuff was terrifying for ME! So much to learn.

EMRR wrote:Thanks. It's been awhile since I've seen one of these behaviors, but I do remember them. I think for me it was common in DP6. I was a late adopter of both 7 and 8, so maybe I missed bug related versions.

DP6.0 certainly had its share of behaviors! That was one upgrade with an attitude. DP7.0 was probably the best dotZero release I've ever seen in any software. 8.0, not so much, but only a little less reliable than DP7.0. I've often wondered what went on at MOTU prior to the DP6.0 release. Knowing how DP can be a totally different piece of software on two people's different Macs, I'm guessing that they were pulling their hair out between beta testers saying it was great and others saying they couldn't even get to first base. In my mythical scenario, I picture the boss finally saying "Release it! Hell with the bugs! We'll fix 'em as fast as they report 'em."

One thing for sure: the reports began on the first day. I remember making a huge list of issues — not necessarily all were bugs, but all were annoying, and some were bugs. It was only a few weeks later that I bought Logic 8 Studio, for I actually feared that MOTU could be seriously hurt by the DP6 release, especially coming after a particularly buggy period for MOTU drivers in DP 4.x and 5.x. Fortunately, my fears were unfounded, and after a year or so of struggling, DP caught fire again and started attracting new customers. (Many came for Andy's AmpGUI Mods, which MOTU later endorsed in their new DP7 feature, Themes)

There I go again. I think I've become Grandpa Simpson, with his Springfield vs. Shelbyville stories.

Shooshie

There was a period dp5-6 in which I would frequently have channels to silent. Sometimes deleting/reassigning the routing in bundles wouldn't help either, but a reboot would. Drove me crazy until it became a habitual fix.

Shooshie wrote:One thing for sure: the reports began on the first day. I remember making a huge list of issues — not necessarily all were bugs, but all were annoying, and some were bugs. It was only a few weeks later that I bought Logic 8 Studio, for I actually feared that MOTU could be seriously hurt by the DP6 release, especially coming after a particularly buggy period for MOTU drivers in DP 4.x and 5.x. Fortunately, my fears were unfounded, and after a year or so of struggling, DP caught fire again and started attracting new customers. (Many came for Andy's AmpGUI Mods, which MOTU later endorsed in their new DP7 feature, Themes)

Shooshie

I had a hell of a time with DP 4, maybe because of the drivers, with stuck notes and all sorts of bad and mysterious juju. Although 4.6 cleaned things up for the most part and DP5 was okay, I didn't really trust or embrace DP again until DP6. Still a few anomalies, but it felt solid to me. Goes to show, different strokes and all that. It was also a period of moving from external MIDI keyboard workstations to working in the box, which for me was hastened because of MIDI clock no longer syncing everything reliably from DP4 on.

Anyway DP6 worked great for me, and 7 and 8 have been rock solid as well, pretty amazing considering all the plugins and OS's and other factors that have to work together these days.

But back to templates.... I also have a few 'parent' files which house various chunks and sketches which later are spun off as individual projects. As DP versions evolve and I work new 'go-to' plugins into the mix, I've tried to get into the habit of creating new templates every now and then, and it seems to work pretty well. This saves having to prune soundbites from multiple sequence files and keeps things relatively tidy.

File maintenance, like life maintenance, can certainly suck up your creative time.

I usually start with an existing file but when there are glitches the first thing I do (after the obvious) is use the LOAD command and get it into a new file which often fixes the problem. G