New IK Multimedia CSR (Classic Studio Reverb) plug...

[labman]

Syncrosoft is having serious problems right now with their software not reading their keys properly. Also, it's VERY SLOW.
.

Hi Frodo,

Can you please explain what you mean by slow. Slow interface? Slow within DP? Slow how?

Thanks

Regards,
DLevy
mgr, Legacy Lab

[Frodo]

Syncrosoft is having serious problems right now with their software not reading their keys properly. Also, it's VERY SLOW.
.

Hi Frodo,

Can you please explain what you mean by slow. Slow interface? Slow within DP? Slow how?

Thanks

Regards,
DLevy


mgr, Legacy Lab

The issue seems to occur regardless of app. I've not tried to use Logic just yet because of certain Project Manager workarounds I hear tell about that need to be done first. I've only within the past two weeks have gotten things working well in DP with respect to authorization codes being recognized without a glitch. I use Logic, but I don't use any of my Syncrosoft-based plugins there--- not yet, anyway.

Some users are having or have had trouble with License Control Center version 5.0.0.1. I had to revert to using v. 4.9.7.6. Syncrosft has released v. 5.0.2.0, but some users are still having trouble with it while others are experiencing great success.

I was among those having serious troubles with my Syncrosoft key not reading properly. When a booting DP project containing VI's that use the Syncrosoft key there were times when the spinning beach ball would go on forever. In several tests it hung for 30 minutes. In one test done at the end of the day, it ran over night and was still stuck the next morning. In 60% of the early tests which worked at all, it would take an average of 3 minutes until the license was recognized and before any samples began to load. The best of the early tests rendered wait times of about 12-18 minutes from license recognition to full sample load-- 5 instances containing a total of 1 GB of sounds.

Going back to v. 4.9.7.6 now has a 30 second wait to license recognition and a 2 minute wait for the same amount of data mentioned above, which I've found to be as good or better than the same amount of data on other DP projects that don't rely on the Syncrosoft system. This has been working consistently on many systems, although in fairness others are boasting success with 5.0.2.0. Having gotten things working currently has me wary of updating very soon until I hear more success stories.

Also in fairness, Syncrosoft has acknowledged the reports by numerous users who saying the same things, and they ARE working hard to correct it.

One other thing was that with versions 4.9.7.6, 4.9.7.7, 5.0.0.1, and 5.0.2.0, users have discovered occasional troubles when downloading licenses caused by the fact that the License Control Center software sometimes won't recognize more than one level of USB connectivity. By this I mean that putting your dongle in the keyboard USB port or even a powered USB hub *can* result in an error message.

The solution for this was to plug the dongle directly into the computer tower itself while downloading authorization codes. Once that is done, using a powered USB hub seems to work well.

I must say, I have another Syncrosoft key for another app I bought last year and have never had any trouble with it. The problems seem to be with recent updates of the SLCC software. Once I feel more confident that things are working as well as they should, I'll transfer all of my Syncrosoft licenses to one dongle, but that won't happen any time soon.

Hope this helps.

Best,
Frodo

[Tonio]

Ha thats funy!, I asked Jim about the comute since his sig line over at GS says Carlsbad???? No reply. Upgrade heaven now LOL
T

Any way, funny you should ask as I'm 10 minutes away from hopping on my motorcycle and my two-hour trek to deliver my mic.

If I hadn't just spent lunch taking a run on one beautiful uncommonly cool day in Dallas, I'd be really pissed off reading that.

Enjoy the hell out of that ride!

Don't envy me. Wanna hear a good story? I hop on the motorcycle... long sleeve shirt, vest... just gonna have a nice ride. Well I spoke to the guy on the phone the day before and said I'd bring the mic up to him. I went to his site, http://www.audioupgrades.com and noted the address, did the Yahoo Maps thing this morning and off I go. Did it occur to me to verify that he hadn't moved?

Bottom line I arrive at locked suite at a small commercial type building in Van Nuys and it's empty... deserted. I call the number and say "Where are you located?" (This is a little bit of verification I should have done BEFORE leaving). He says "Carlsbad, CA"... Hooray... I overshot by about 100 miles or so. LOL I suggested he might update his site. Say's he's working on that... friend was doing it for him and isn't any more and he's lost his passwords. I offered to go in and fix it for him.

Any way, bottom line is I got it done... looking forward to the sound of this hot-rodded 414B-ULS. I have a Millennia Media HV-3C coming and a MOTU HD192 interface... so I'm looking foward to it. Also, I *did* get Altiverb today... it may not stack up to expensive hardware boxes... but I couldn't resist.

[Jaysplace101]

So,..... not to get off topic here, but.... does anyone have anything to say about how this IK verb sounds? Any users?

j

[Frodo]

So,..... not to get off topic here, but.... does anyone have anything to say about how this IK verb sounds? Any users?

j

Jay-- I'd mentioned earlier that CSR is part of IK's Vitous Philharmonik orchestra library. It sounds good, imho. Altiverb is my benchmark for these sorts of things, for better or worse. CSR has a warmth and smooth tail-trail I didn't expect. However, as it works within the orchestra library, it is a processor HOG. I can't speak to any OS optimization which has been done on the self-containted version of CSR

With that said, everyone has their own ideas about what sounds good and what doesn't. How everyone uses a reverb plugin has much impact on the results as the product itself. I've heard hideous things out of every software reverb on the market-- and great results out of only some of them.

Sound quality: CSR is well worth at least a demo.
CPU efficiency: TBD

[Jaysplace101]

OK Frodo, sorry I missed that. If it's a processor hog, that's bad.... of course. Thanks for the review!

j

[James Steele]

Sound quality: CSR is well worth at least a demo.

This was my big problem and one of the reasons I started this post. I don't have any software that uses the Syncrosoft hardware key, and you can't use the demo without this key. I could buy one for $20 so that I could TRY CSR, but I don't want to do that and then not like it and be stuck with the dongle.

[labman]

Thanks for the details on the syncrosoft woes Frodo. Exactly the important kind of info we were needing to know.

Regards,
DLevy
mgr, Legacy Lab

[Frodo]

Sound quality: CSR is well worth at least a demo.

This was my big problem and one of the reasons I started this post. I don't have any software that uses the Syncrosoft hardware key, and you can't use the demo without this key. I could buy one for $20 so that I could TRY CSR, but I don't want to do that and then not like it and be stuck with the dongle.

Hey James-- you did say that, didn't you?Sorry for the oversight. I keep forgetting I have a key.

Is there not a store nearby that would let you spend an hour or so on their system working with it? That's one of my favorite things about a favorite store here in LA-- I'm a strong believer in "try before you buy".

The whole demo thing is a major oversight on IK's part. At least with Altiverb one could install the demo on their system with the caveat of the recurring beeps. I don't get the notion of having to buy the key just to check out the demo-- it puts money in Syncrosoft's pocket right away, but it actually discourages potential CSR customers from even trying it. You can't return software, so the whole thing is futile.

Then there's the whole painful process of uninstalling the demo...

[Frodo]

OK Frodo, sorry I missed that. If it's a processor hog, that's bad.... of course. Thanks for the review!

j

Hi Jay-- I should have mentioned that I don't use CSR in the context of Vitous Phil.

However, the standalone version could be use more frugally by summing tracks to a limited number of effects aux. This would be done anyway with other AU reverbs to save resources.

I've got a bit of work to do this afternoon, but I'll try to post a screenshot of a Vitous Setup with and without CSR loaded just to show you what goes on with the CPU. I do recall having to set buffers VERY high at one point, but disabling CSR sent my CPU down to about 50%.

I wouldn't worry about all this, except I do like the sound of it.

[Frodo]

Thanks for the details on the syncrosoft woes Frodo. Exactly the important kind of info we were needing to know.

Regards,
DLevy
mgr, Legacy Lab

Hey DLevy:

I hope that these issues prove to be only a small bump in the road for companies who use Syncrosoft. I hadn't heard of such issues until last month when I stumbled right into the middle of them. But I finally got things working.

I'm no fan of software piracy at all, but these dongles and response codes are the bane of honest users.

[mhschmieder]

It's been a few weeks now. Has anyone tried CSR? I was looking into it the past few days, and it got an excellent review (9 out of 10) in Music Tech Magazine (U.K.) this month. They called it the best non-convolution reverb on the market, excepting TC Powercore. As I've never heard TC Powercore, I have no idea what that comparison means, and that magazine has never reviewed Wave Arts MasterVerb either.

I listened to all of the demos at IK Multimedia's site and despised every last one of them. What is it with European companies and modern pop music? Does it occur to them to at least post ONE sample that ISN'T either rap-influenced or electronica-influenced? How can I judge a reverb from music that I detest and which has no known "natural state" as its basis?

I'm not entirely opposed to spending $20 on a lock if it's fully functioning software and I can get production work done with it for a few days while trying it. But I don't want a long wait at this point as I have work that needs to get done and have to make final decisions and have fully functioning non-demo versions of reverbs, compressors, etc. by late May if not earlier.

I am wondering if anyone has compared the lower-end Lexicon and TC Electronic hardware units to any of these well-liked reverb plug-ins. Or even how the TC Electronic M350 (which replaces the M300) stacks up against TC Powercore's default (free) reverb plug-ins, as well as Lexicon's similarly-priced and similarly-functioned MX-series unit. At least I know what those sound like so it means something to read a comparison. I'm torn right now between MasterVerb and an as-yet-untried reverb plug-in or outboard hardware from TC or Lexi.

[MT]

I disagree with the earlier post that T-Racks is a disappointment. I use it constantly and I think it's great. You just have to have a fair amount of experience with compressors, limiters and eq's, T-racks isn't really an instant gratification plug.

Had to post and come back to eat a few words. Due to timing issues, I was forced to home master two tracks over the past few days, and the T-Racks suite came in very handy. I ended up with a combination of the URS A EQ -> T-Racks -> touch of UAD Precision Limiter and it turned out pretty nicely. Mostly, I was so pleased with the results I got starting with the T-Racks Vintage Low End EQ setting and working from there. Tons of glue down there. I shouldn't have given up on it so soon, I guess!

On another note - never thought I'd use the URS on a mix, but... they're just that good!

[Dubnick]

I don't have an opinion either way on the CSR plug, but I have to say that Altiverb is the only plug-in verb that I've thought to be worth it's high price - it really is stunning.

[eriknorlander]

Hi all,

I just finished mixing a double CD rock album liberally using the CSR Plate reverb on the drums (detail: Gregg Bissonette drumming -- good drummer with good sounding drums recorded with good mics in a good sounding room -- lots of "good"). I thought I would weigh in as I've gotten so much great info from you folks in the past.

The verdict? I am a fan. This plug-in added a thickness to the drums that I have not been able to get from other plug-in reverbs (I use UAD-1 Dreamverb and Plate 140, which I still find great for vocals, guitars and keyboards).

"Classic Studio Reverb" is actually a perfect title for this product, as it definitely has all of the filtered thickness and companding / distortion of units like the Lexicon 224 / 480 and EMT 250. And I love that. I'm one of those guys who always puts an EQ before the reverb and filters the input heavily. Sometimes adding compression, too, before the 'verb. For drums, I usually put a HP at 400 Hz and a LP at 3 kHz, sometimes 2.5 kHz if the hat and cymbals are particularly bright and invasive. So the whole midrange thickness is really important to me, and CSR has it. I'm using fairly short decay times with little to no pre-delay.

I have not used Altiverb, and I can say that truly everyone I know that has it sings its praises. But it seems like CSR is a very different animal. I don't get the impressiong that CSR is meant to be natural sounding. But man, it definitely sounds like rock 'n' roll. Yep.

With the Syncrosoft key, yes, there is a delay when you load CSR onto a track the first time. After that, though, it opens right away. As I mentioned on another thread, I don't see any delay when opening the DP app itself as others have noted. But I'm not running any VIs on my G5 either, so that may account for it. The Syncrosoft key is stashed away in a slot of a cheap multi-port USB hub, and it seems to run just fine (knock wood) without introducing any anomolies into my system.

In my studio I have a Lexicon PCM-91, a PCM-60 and an old Alesis XT:c. I love the sound of them all, and I track these hw units often. However on this project, I didn't use them, going instead to CSR. If you're looking for clear, pure, natural - sounding reverberation, this one may not do it for you. But for big hairy gnarly aggressive rock 'n' roll drum 'verb, this one is certainly now my first call.

I don't work for IK Multimedia nor do I have any stake in the company. Just makin' records over here, looking for the good stuff. Hope this is helpful.

Best regards,
Erik