Dorico Rant

[Phil O]

[begin rant]

I'm seeing the writing on the wall and realize I'm probably going to end up using Dorico. I tried MuseScore for a while but it just ain't cutting it.

I'm getting so frustrated trying to learn Dorico. It seems like every move I make I have to go on a "how to" quest. It goes something like this:

I need to have notes use a shared stem (like a chord) in a drum set score. Go to the help menu search chords - no joy. Search shared stems - no joy. Search percussion notation -no joy. Several other words I could think of = nada.

Finally did a google search and foud a YouTube video. Aha! It's under notation>percussion options. But where do I find that? Back to the help menu. Aha! Application menu>Notation Options>Percussion. But where is the Application Menu?

Well as far as I can tell there ain't no stinkin' Application Menu in version 5.1. It's under the Library menu now.

Took me about 45 minutes to figure that all out. Jeepers!


This is painful. Finale, why have you forsaken me???

[end rant]

Am I that stupid or are others having as much trouble as I am?

[HCMarkus]

Although I don't use transcription software (other than DP for sketches), I can totally relate, Phil. I've been helping a friend/client learn Logic; compared to DP, I don't find it at all logical.

My awkward efforts are extremely frustrating.

[stubbsonic]

Your rant has described every moment I spent with FInale, MuseScore, and Sibelius.

I expect Dorico to be slightly friendlier, generally, but only slightly. I do like that the piano roll editor is in there.

[mikehalloran]

I've had Dorico since v.2 in 2018 and still haven't really gotten into it.'

As you saw in my other thread, the reason I went and created an external boot drive with multiple APFS is so that I can run Finale 27 on any Mac made from 2012 through 2025.

Dirty little secret: the Finale never phones home to the License Manager. Deleting activations does not disable installed seats. In addition, the LM doesn't complain about 27 being installed on multiple APFS Volumes attached to the same CPU—one installation as far as it's concerned. I am Not posting this little tidbit on the official MM Support boards — let's just say tat, if I were they, I'd delete this knowledge.

[ed belknap]

This is painful. Finale, why have you forsaken me???

Every notation software eventually forsakes the end user. Mark my words, in 20 years -- or less (fewer?) -- Dorico will pull the plug and all the Dorico power users will be ranting and wailing and gnashing their teeth, "WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME?!?!"

I'm still pissed at MOTU for orphaning Mosaic. I have over a decade's worth of compositions, from my most fruitful/productive years as a composer, saved in Mosaic.

I also have archives in three or four other notation software formats...all gone now.

Lately I've just been printing out blank staff paper from a saved PDF and writing scores by (gasp!) hand.

[stubbsonic]

Well, thankfully, once a project is done, it can be committed to PDF and/or XML (and MIDI, of course).

Also, if the writing is on the wall, and lots of work is riding on it, an older computer can be kept around to re-edit old work on abandonware.

But yea, I suppose we should count ourselves lucky if we outlive our software-- beats the alternative, as they say...

[mhschmieder]

I would way rather do all manuscript by hand; it never occurred to me that people use the computer for productivity reasons, as it takes me way longer to organize my notation actions into related groups and keep straight what I have or haven't done as I deal with stuff non-sequentially due to the limitations of a computer and software interface for such purposes.

Furthermore, jazz charts are a nightmare even in Dorico, as it doesn't seem possible to produce the sorts of charts and lead sheets you find in The Real Book and similar volumes, thus causing musicians to complain about charts taking up more than one page or even going to five pages.

I only use the computer as I don't have a way to scan and convert handwritten manuscript and need PDF's to print and send to people. I just assumed that was the main reason ANYONE uses a notation software package vs. doing it by hand.

Are there actually people who can do computer based notation at even one fourth the speed of handwritten?

[mikehalloran]

I would way rather do all manuscript by hand; it never occurred to me that people use the computer for productivity reasons, as it takes me way longer to organize my notation actions into related groups and keep straight what I have or haven't done as I deal with stuff non-sequentially due to the limitations of a computer and software interface for such purposes.

Furthermore, jazz charts are a nightmare even in Dorico, as it doesn't seem possible to produce the sorts of charts and lead sheets you find in The Real Book and similar volumes, thus causing musicians to complain about charts taking up more than one page or even going to five pages.

I only use the computer as I don't have a way to scan and convert handwritten manuscript and need PDF's to print and send to people. I just assumed that was the main reason ANYONE uses a notation software package vs. doing it by hand.

Are there actually people who can do computer based notation at even one fourth the speed of handwritten?

Speaking for myself only, not in any of the current notation app offerings.

Before my stroke, I could be fast in Encore which is why I still use it for lead sheets and 1–2 page choir arrangements. Now that I’ve the use of only one arm, it’s still my preferred app. Because its printed output sucks, I print to pdf and use PDFtoMusic Pro to import it into Finale where I can fix slurs and such. Encore’s xml export doesn’t pick up lyrics and expressions but they’re in the pdf file.

[ed belknap]

Are there actually people who can do computer based notation at even one fourth the speed of handwritten?

I don't think absolute speed is the only consideration. I was always willing to accept the slight speed penalty to using notation softare because the output was infinitely more legible than any handwritten charts that I could spit out faster.

And the handwritten charts that I was patient and painstaking enough to ensure they were legible almost certainly took just as long as whipping up an equivalent part in Mosaic or Finale.

[Phil O]

Well I haven't had a lot of time to mess with Dorico (as the little work I have right now does need to be completed on schedule) so I'm still using Finale for that. But the time I've spent with Dorico has proven to be frustrating. I'm finding that Googling "How do I do X in Dorico" is actually faster than consulting the manual. Perhaps the program itself may not be as bad as the manual.

Regarding hand written manuscripts, a good percentage of the work for which I need notation software is as a copyist. I have the fun task of turning those hen scratches on toilet paper into beautiful music.

Your friendly neighborhood Phil

[mhschmieder]

Yes, the user manual for Dorico leaves a LOT to be desired, and on-line searches are often more fruitful.

When I used to go to NAMM regularly, I remember watching the vendors who made standalone two-sided "screens" for manuscript scanning and manipulation plus viewing. Not sure what became of them.

I have used the PDF reader tool to import from non-MusicXML sources into Finale and that worked fairly well in some cases. Can't remember if I have yet tried that in Dorico.

[stubbsonic]

I can remember with Sibelius, I searched the manual for the phrase "Grand Staff" ... nothing. And it was like that for MANY things.

Why the Finale experience felt less sisyphean (first timer, using that word)-- was that I could search anything on a popular search tool and find an answer.

Sounds like Dorico will be similar.

[mikehalloran]

I have used the PDF reader tool to import from non-MusicXML sources into Finale and that worked fairly well in some cases. Can't remember if I have yet tried that in Dorico.

Finale came with SmartScore Lite (no lyrics or text) through 2014.5. It was 32 bit only and dropped from Finale 25-on over copyright concerns.

SmartScore 64 NE is the current, full featured version, released last August and half price to Finale/Dorico owners. This scans and does not rely on font info. You can edit in the app before exporting as .enf to Finale or MusicXML to everything else. It works.
https://www.musitek.com/store/Fin2SS64.html

Dorico's MusicXML 4.0 input isn't bad unless you are using font glyphs not (yet) supported in Dorico such as oversized time signatures. The Dorico forum boards have suggestions for making this less painful. Daniel has posted that they are working on getting this better.

If the output is pdf from the app, PDFtoMusic Pro can be fairly good. Since Encore's xml doesn't support lyrics or expressions, I've found it useful. Dirty little not so secret: It will run in demo mode forever but your output is limited to one page only without a license—export the page you want in Preview.
https://www.myriad-online.com/en/produc ... sicpro.htm

Sibelius supports MusicXML 4.0 through the free Dolet 8 plug-in from MakeMusic.

[Phil O]

"sisyphean"

Had to look that one up.

[stubbsonic]

"sisyphean"

Had to look that one up.

It's a good word for things that feel like rolling a heavy rock up a mountain, over and over, forever. Only I'm rolling my eyes.