Toontrack must make the most perfect software ever?

[James Steele]

Every day, one of the first things I do when I power up my home studio is run the various software updater apps from the various developers to see if there are maintenance updates. Occasionally there are and I bring those plugins current.

One thing I've noticed is that there seem to NEVER be updates from Toontrack. Apparently, they must have released Superior Drummer 3 (as an example) with absolutely ZERO bugs, defying all the odds in this business. I'm impressed. And also skeptical. Just my observation. It makes me wonder.

[James Steele]

Okay... I'll just say this again... it just amazes me. I regularly check for updates and it amazes me how so many other developers seem to release bug fixes, etc. yet Toontrack seems to obviously write the most flawless plugins in history as every time I launch Toontrack Product Manager... nothing. They must not have any bugs at all. Wow.

[stubbsonic]

It's an interesting topic. If software just works and there are no issues, then there is no need for updates.

I wonder if some software developers are also better at predicting what kinds of stuff will get hosed with an OS update, and can somehow avoid it.

[James Steele]

It's an interesting topic. If software just works and there are no issues, then there is no need for updates.

I wonder if some software developers are also better at predicting what kinds of stuff will get hosed with an OS update, and can somehow avoid it.

Good point. I guess it's just the cynic in me that wonders "How can they be that good? How is it that every other developer that makes plugs that I use, has updates or bug fixes at least every couple months or so?"

Seems hard to believe that something as complex as Superior Drummer 3 (just as an example), wouldn't have more issues or require more maintenance updates. I'm just perplexed.

[Michael Canavan]

It's an interesting topic. If software just works and there are no issues, then there is no need for updates.

I wonder if some software developers are also better at predicting what kinds of stuff will get hosed with an OS update, and can somehow avoid it.

Good point. I guess it's just the cynic in me that wonders "How can they be that good? How is it that every other developer that makes plugs that I use, has updates or bug fixes at least every couple months or so?"

Seems hard to believe that something as complex as Superior Drummer 3 (just as an example), wouldn't have more issues or require more maintenance updates. I'm just perplexed.

I'm going to take a wild guess and say it's due to not attempting to run cross platform frameworks at all, zero, zilch.

The reason for thinking this is simple, VST was an issue on Mac OS for years, developers would use all sorts of code frameworks to port their Windows plugin GUI to Mac and in the early 2000's you could sometimes even get Windows graphic elements in plugins, that were not surprisingly buggy on Mac OS. The initial reason why AU was even proposed was the lack of stability of VSTs on Mac OS 9 at the time.

Even to this day wrappers are used sometimes, and multiple plugin developers come up with their own ways to port as much elements as possible between Mac and Windows. Some of (I'm betting) the reasons why developers will have to redo their plugins for every Mac OS update (NI for instance), is because of this, they only loosely follow Apples AU spec and guidelines for plugin development, mostly in order to keep as much cross platform code as possible in their plugin.

So Toontrack probably do not port anything GUI wise between Mac and PC, ensuring almost no reasons for updates. It's probably also why Superior Drummer is so expensive.

[stubbsonic]

Sort of makes me want to pay more attention to plugins that are Mac only or not.

[bayswater]

Sort of makes me want to pay more attention to plugins that are Mac only or not.

What’s mac only?

[James Steele]

Sort of makes me want to pay more attention to plugins that are Mac only or not.

What’s mac only?

They don’t make a Windows version?

[stubbsonic]

Yea, I just meant that I may start noticing if a product has both Windows and Mac versions (i.e., having to manage the cross-platform thing that Michael Canavan described). Might not influence my decision much, but I'm inferring that if it is Mac-Only software, that might possibly mean that it is more robust (?)

[Michael Canavan]

Yea, I just meant that I may start noticing if a product has both Windows and Mac versions (i.e., having to manage the cross-platform thing that Michael Canavan described). Might not influence my decision much, but I'm inferring that if it is Mac-Only software, that might possibly mean that it is more robust (?)

in the past that was the case, but I really can't think of any plugins that are Mac only anymore? For a little while when AU first came out it happened, since it's much much easier to code an AU than a VST, Urs Heckman of U-He (the developers of Diva, Zebra, Hive etc.), claimed he probably wouldn't have started coding if it wasn't for easy (to someone like him of course) Audio Unit specs. Zebra 1 for instance was AU only.

[bayswater]

Yea, I just meant that I may start noticing if a product has both Windows and Mac versions (i.e., having to manage the cross-platform thing that Michael Canavan described). Might not influence my decision much, but I'm inferring that if it is Mac-Only software, that might possibly mean that it is more robust (?)

I got that. Just asking if there are any AU only plugins. Can you think of one?

[stubbsonic]

Ah, point taken. I guess that's not a thing anymore.

Probably doesn't really count, but isn't Logic Mac only?

[bayswater]

Ah, point taken. I guess that's not a thing anymore.

Probably doesn't really count, but isn't Logic Mac only?

Yes, but its plugins are internal to the app, even if they are AU. Can’t be used with other DAWs except when set up as an external effects rack (which I’ve done). Like DP now where what was a set of MAS plugins that in theory could be used with other hosts, are embedded in the DAW and not otherwise accessible.

I suppose the Apple plugins that come with macOS are AU only.

[stubbsonic]

I suppose the Apple plugins that come with macOS are AU only.

I was gonna say they don't get many updates, but then I slammed on the brakes.

[bayswater]

I suppose the Apple plugins that come with macOS are AU only.

I was gonna say they don't get many updates, but then I slammed on the brakes.

Probably updated along with macOS updates to keep them working with the current AU spec. But unlikely there are any changes in function. I found some of them quite useful, including the delay plugin which can take a negative value and be used to deal with unusually latency compensation cases, like the situation the DP external thingy plugin was supposed to do.