Mixing in DP

[musicdragon]

Hello Unicornation,
I have been coming to this board since before it went down for a while & happy to see it's back


my first post is related to plug ins in DP !


I am using DP4.5 on a G5 and have also been using the MW EQ / MW Limiter & looking at getting the Waves platinum plug ins.

Question 1 When mixing say 35 tracks of audio /live drums / guitar/ bass/vox should all faders stay at -0 reference point/ like analoge before the bounce to stero mix?

Question 2 If the answer to Q1 is Yes, then can you push each fader that needs it with a limiter L1 / MW limiter until the tracks are almost peaking before you bounce the files to a stereo mix for mastering?

Question 3 When mastering is that where the L2 comes in?

I'm Learning!

Thanx for any Help

Donnie
www.musicdragon.com

[azusa749a]

Question 1 When mixing say 35 tracks of audio /live drums / guitar/ bass/vox should all faders stay at -0 reference point/ like analoge before the bounce to stero mix?

Question 2 If the answer to Q1 is Yes, then can you push each fader that needs it with a limiter L1 / MW limiter until the tracks are almost peaking before you bounce the files to a stereo mix for mastering?

Question 3 When mastering is that where the L2 comes in?

1. No. Faders stay where your song sounds right to you, sometimes they go above "0", even in analog.
Although I've seen some live-mixed engineers set all faders to "0" and use the gain pots to set levels.
They said it's much easier to remember faders positions. But that's a different application.
2. ..
3. Normally after you finish mixdown and get ready for burning CD, you might want to retouch on Eq, reverb and the last one limiter.

For the price of Waves Platinum you can get UAD-1 Ultra Pak+Project Pak which I thnk it's a better deal.

[mcevilley]

For the price of Waves Platinum you can get UAD-1 Ultra Pak+Project Pak which I thnk it's a better deal.

I have to respectfully disagree with you on that one. I've got the UAD and the Waves and I rarely use the UAD-1. To my ears, NOTHING can touch Waves plug-ins. I would pay 5 times the amount for a Waves plug than I would for a UAD.

[Tim]

For the price of Waves Platinum you can get UAD-1 Ultra Pak+Project Pak which I thnk it's a better deal.

I have to respectfully disagree with you on that one. I've got the UAD and the Waves and I rarely use the UAD-1. To my ears, NOTHING can touch Waves plug-ins. I would pay 5 times the amount for a Waves plug than I would for a UAD.
:o

Can you use more Waves than UA plugs?

[qo]

Or, can you use more Waves IR-1 than Altiverb? Since I have both, I'll answer that. No, you can't. And, Altiverb trounces IR-1. The only other Waves plugs I have are the RenMax bundle and, IMHO, either EAS or Sonalksis does better within each of their respective areas. Admittedly, I've never used any of the plugs in the Platinum/Diamond bundles, but based on experience with Wave's other plugs vs the competition, I wouldn't want to make the investment. I'm sure the L3 is decent, but I'm thinking Waves is stuck in this weird time warp where their marketing department doesn't see the myriad competition that's emerged over the last several years. They're just way overpriced.

[zobomix]

I just got a UAD-1 Ultra Pack and compared it to the demo of the RenMaxx plugs. I am so glad I went for the UAD-1 because the Waves plugs aren't that good compared to the UAD-1 1176 and LA2A. Waves is too overpriced and the quality is average.
I understand that the Waves users would love to jump on me and beat me to death but this is not a matter of taste, the UAD-1 quality is definitely higher. You can run less plugs on a UAD-1 compared to the native Waves but you can bounce to disk or export tracks.
Little thing aside. I compared the MW EQ with the Oxford PTLE EQ, and the MW EQ sounded signifivantly more accurate on the low end. Too bad the MW EQ is only available for DP. Unfortunately, I don't have any way to post the results at the moment

[Kubi]

(...) but this is not a matter of taste, the UAD-1 quality is definitely higher

I always appreciate a good laugh. No shortage of chutzpah there, matey! Love ya!



All kidding aside, glad you found what you like! But you should note that there are some really accomplished folks around who like their RennMaxx plugs for some reason or another (people like Lynn Fuston aren't exactly chopped liver...)

Just a friendly comment.

[Timeline]

If it sounds good •••• it good!

Have a good burning and welcome back

[mcevilley]

I just got a UAD-1 Ultra Pack and compared it to the demo of the RenMaxx plugs. I am so glad I went for the UAD-1 because the Waves plugs aren't that good compared to the UAD-1 1176 and LA2A. Waves is too overpriced and the quality is average.

Hey, don't be fooled by the cool retro look of the UAD plugs. Try taking a vocal performance with a wide dynamic range and copying it onto two tracks. Put a waves ren compressor on one and either an LA2A or an 1176 on the other,and then watch your meters. The ren compressor will even it out nicely and actually make it sound bigger. The UAD's will not do a very good job evening the vocals out, and, the more you compress them, the smaller they will start to sound.

[chrispick]

I just got a UAD-1 Ultra Pack and compared it to the demo of the RenMaxx plugs. I am so glad I went for the UAD-1 because the Waves plugs aren't that good compared to the UAD-1 1176 and LA2A. Waves is too overpriced and the quality is average.

Hey, don't be fooled by the cool retro look of the UAD plugs. Try taking a vocal performance with a wide dynamic range and copying it onto two tracks. Put a waves ren compressor on one and either an LA2A or an 1176 on the other,and then watch your meters. The ren compressor will even it out nicely and actually make it sound bigger. The UAD's will not do a very good job evening the vocals out, and, the more you compress them, the smaller they will start to sound.

Come on, we're kinds comparing apples and oranges here. The UAD-1 plugs are supposed to be emulations of old gear with all their inherent anomalies.

Plus, do people often run vocals through the LA2A (I ask 'cause I don't know)? Drums, for sure, especially room mics. And bass guitar, if you want it to cut hard. To me, the LA2A is all about hard bite and spit. Ain't nothing elegant or finesseful about it. If I want fuller, smoother vocals, I reach for the Pultec. If I were to compress them, then it's some Fairchild or a transparent comp (depending on my color needs). Maybe a touch of 1176 via buss.

Anyhoo... Compressors are a matter of taste. Totally. Everybody likes different stuff. Meters don't mean anything here. Follow your ears.

My two cents.

[croyal]

Good advice to use your ears. Every plug has it's strengths and weaknesses. Until recently I used the Ren Eqs A LOT and was very happy with their sound for how I was using them. Then someone introduced me to the URS plugs- and I bought the whole set!!!

Truth is that I use both Waves and URS in the same projects- the waves stuff (for me) works best when the application calls for transparent and un-noticed- such as a track that is great already but needs a little eq or something. The URS stuff is for adding character that's lacking in the track- not my first choice for subtle with no added color. These are generalizations of course but just show that every type of plug has its best uses. I wouldn't reach for RenEq/ Comps to add balls or crunch- I've got hardware (and the URS stuff) for that.

And yes, I even find uses for Altiveb and RenVerb in the same mix. Kind of a light/ dark thing that works for me. I would recommend the Renn Bundle and some other bundle from another company for contrast, like UAD or Powercore or URS. Just like using different mics together, the project sounds better to my ears with a mixture of different colored processors.

Chris

[Archer]

Hello,

the L2 is the final plug-in in a mastering chain and is used both for increasing the programs' RMS level and for brick-wall limiting (ensuring that nothing goes over 0dBfs).

[wonder]

i dont wanna bring up a rough subject...but i just got PT.

do you guys rather mix in PT or DP?

[musicdragon]

Thanx azusa for getting back... Appreciate the info. I have mixed on an analoge desk before/ i have a 2408 mk II & III & used the analoge outs & mixed through a crappy mackie & now I want to try to keep everything in the digital domain & mixing is definitly different.

I have looked at a control surfaces for dp, mackie, DM24 or the new DM32 but I don't mind mousing around for now with plug ins & prefer to go that route.

I also have a windows systems (should i say that around here,lol) with wavlab & using TC electronic plugs with sonars, but i have to bounce each track to wav & transfer it over & back & that sucks!!! Windows is just terrible for tracking & can't tell ya how many times i got the blue screen of death, mac rulz:)


I guess where I am at is, I didn't want to push the tracks with limiters/compressors to much so I have some head room for the final eq/limiter.

I know I can automate the faders & might want to go below or beyond-0 when mixing just wanted to know if the tracks are in the Yellow before the evil Red clip zone is that ok before the bounce to 2 track stereo?????

I also know about the uad cards and aware that plug ins are very subjective & everyone likes different taste in that dept.

I am mixing a Rock project & the UAD Studio card was next on the list of plugs I am also working on having a 6176 pre in my rack someday using Presonus now & again better then my crappy mackie pres,lol..

Thanx Kubi, Archer,croyal, chrispick,mcevilley,Timeline,zobomix,qo,Tim,mcevilley for the imput really appreciate it!


PS what is everyone using for burners & software? Toast? External CD burner or will the apple supadrive work just as good and just as compatible with players??????


Thanx
Donnie
www.musicdragon.com

[Kubi]

NOW I understand the "faders at zero" question.

No, you do not have to be as worried about maximizing levels on every track as you do in the analog world. I usually record to peak at about -6dB, which gives me a good 12dB headroom, so I'm being far more conservative than I would be in the analog world. And if I have to set the levels quickly, I'd rather go even lower than that, just to be safe.

BTW, AFAIK within DP's 32-bit floating point resolution you have LOADS of headroom, so provided you have a clip-free digital audio track recorded, even a "clip" in the individual track's fader may not actually clip the digital signal at all, depending on how and from where it generated... somewhere around here there's a detailed explanation of this by Magic Dave. But since there are circumstances that will clip (i.e. some plugs will clip even if the fader wouldn't) there's no point risking it.