Is it just me.....

[dmacintyre]

.....or is DP completely counter-intuitive? Got my DP through today, installed, started it and..........what now? OK, RTFM but this just seems a totally pointless purchase. It's stable, I like the meter bridge and the way you can dock each window together but that's about it. The tracks window seems pointlessly lacking in function, the sequence window is very fussy and difficult to see more than a few tracks, drum editor is OK, MIDI OK, mixer - why doesn't the scroll wheel work for negotiating this window when it does everywhere else? I know Logic and Live intimately, Pro Tools and Cubase moderately well yet I am stumped with DP and it's supposed intuitive workflow. A MIDI and an Audio track required for a VI plugin? Too much I'm afraid. I'll work on it over the weekend as I'm not one to jump to conclusions (:?) but I really can't see me pursuing this much further.

Sorry, I'm not trying to troll but I thought I'd give DP another try in v5 but I still don't get it. Any pointers to understand what it's all about? (I remember how Logic's environment seemed the first time I encountered it!!!).

David

[bralston]

Ironic...I feel the same way about Logic that you do about DP. Go figure.

[auptown]

Coming from the other environments I can imagine that it seems non-intuitive, I've been confused about getting a VI working right. But after digging in I realize that having multiple MIDI tracks feeding different instruments in a VI is really powerful. But getting the first track to run is a bit more involved (make a VI track, make a MIDI track, assign MIDI track to VI, etc). But you can also add an instrument and MIDI tracks in one motion.

I would really suggest working through the tutorials, and trying to see what works for you. One thing about DP, there are many parallel paths to getting the same thing done. When I first started I worked almost exclusively in the mixer window, since I was coming from the world of analog. Now I just see it as one way of looking at things.

And, use this board as a resource. I have learned a tremendous amount and I continue to. Every month or so I read through the Tips posts, and I pick up something else.

[chrispick]

The tracks window seems pointlessly lacking in function

I think of the Tracks window as an overview of everything going on.

A way to organize and consolidate MIDI and audio into folders. A means to macro edit MIDI and audio. A way to keep cursory track of a project.

the sequence window is very fussy and difficult to see more than a few tracks

You can resize tracks there to fit more data to a screen. Can't comment on the fussiness. Works fine for me.

I use the Sequence Editor for finer-tune audio editing primarily. Crossfades, edge edits, etc.

The SE can do more, of course. Some DP users manage to use it for almost all their tracking/mixing needs.

Likewise, I use the MIDI window for finer-tune MIDI editing. Nudging MIDI, editing rolls, etc.

A MIDI and an Audio track required for a VI plugin? Too much I'm afraid.

This gives you more flexibility and visual reference, I think.

Say you have a multi-timbral VI like a soft sampler. You can build out discrete, easily-visible MIDI tracks for each channel output.

Moreover, you can build numerous MIDI tracks for a single output, if you like. I do this for tracking drum kit MIDI (e.g., MIDI track for kick, then snare, then hi-hat, on down the line).

Lastly, you can consolidate everything into a track folder for organization and improved screen readability/real estate.

ICYDK, there's a function in DP 5 that allows you to create multiple MIDI tracks and VI with audio output in a single step. It's the Add Instrument(s) function. Check your manual (I'm not at my box right now, so I can't feed you the steps).

************************

Given that you're familiar with a few DAW apps, I'm not sure how to help you warm up to DP. Here's how I size it, FWIW:

* Tracks Overview for a macro view/edit/organizer window of your project.

* Sequence Editor for fine audio editing (although it's capable of much more -- this is to get you started/thinking about a general DP work paradigm).

* MIDI Window for fine MIDI editing.

* Mixer for mixdown.

That seems logical, right?

Hope this helps.

************************

Personally, I think jumping from one DAW app to another is counter-productive for many people, and it's best to simply learn one inside-and-out and accept its shortcomings. I'm never sure what aural pot of gold they hope to find, as all DAW apps do the same stuff, by and large.

My mindset: Pick a guitar. Play. Turn on a recorder. Record. The rest -- the wont for Nth degrees of tweakability -- can devolve into a Zeno's Paradox pursuit.

All that said, however, I really like DP and its workflow, and hope you'll adopt some degree of favor to it as well.

[Frodo]

.....or is DP completely counter-intuitive? Got my DP through today, installed, started it and..........what now? OK, RTFM but this just seems a totally pointless purchase.

I'd give it more than a day!

Every DAW has it's strong points and quirks. It's important that you use the DAW that makes you fell the most at home. Different DAWs to the same things very well, but how they go about it can feel counter-intuitive.

For me, I've been able to sort out things in DP a lot better and a lot faster than I have with other DAWs. I make use of some of Logic's features-- such as audio processing-- but for every 5 minutes of music making I spend 30 minutes with the manual in my lap. Mixing and editing in Logic is uncomfortable to me while it's most ideal for others. It's hard to explain.

It may turn out that you'll find that you just don't like DP. That's not unusual or uncommon-- or necessarily a bad thing if it means that you'll eventually find the DAW that works best for you.

However, I hope that your experience discovering the features of DP is closer to mine with a little bit of time. It is a great DAW, and much of what stumped me when I first got it had more to do with all the things I *didn't* have to do that needed to be done in other apps. Often, the solutions were too simple to be believed-- one click on one setting often solves a multitude of concerns.

But, at least with DP you have at least one thing working in your favor: you have generous people here at Unicornation on your side!

[bralston]

But, at least with DP you have at least one thing working in your favor: you have generous people here at Unicornation on your side!

Or occasionally...you get one in a sarcastic mood.

[kassonica]

Hey When i first got into DP i felt pretty much the same i came from logic but i hung in there and it did take a while because it was just SO different from logic and that really was the problem but like all great things the more time u spend the more you get back and now i can't ever imagine using anything else, My wife has logic and when i use it (rarely) i can't stand it and long to be back home in DP.

It's horses for courses really if after a while u havn't bonded move along but i suggest you get a really simple track going, 4 audio tracks a couple of MIDI tracks and just have fun and play around just to get a feel.

Hope you bond cause you won't look back.

Chars

[tblanchard]

I still don't get it. Any pointers to understand what it's all about?

I'm about two weeks ahead of you on the learning curve. My last DAW was Studio Vision - which I found much more intuitive than DP. I totally get where you are coming from. But if you keep banging your head against it then it begins to make sense.

For instance, it totally makes sense that you'd bring your hardware synth's audio in on an audio track to facilitate processing, but also have a MIDI track to feed it performance data. So having an audio track for the VI and another for the MIDI is kind of analogous when you think of it.

I will agree that a bunch of simple stuff like - how do I delete a track - is not well exposed (you can't even really select a track in the track window - but you can select data in the track - which amounts to having the track selected even though it doesn't seem like it).

Hang in there, it begins to make sense in about a week. Also - I cannot stress this enough - you really have to work through that thick tome of a manual.

[martian]

- try clicking on the track name - seq or tracks window - that usually does it for me!

then delete tracks in the proj menu

[Frodo]

- try clicking on the track name - seq or tracks window - that usually does it for me!

then delete tracks in the proj menu

Wasn't the delete tracks command in the Tracks Window mini menu at one time? In a way, that made a lot of sense (and I kind of miss that) but the Project menu does put everything in one place. No doubt, I use this feature a LOT!

The tracks window seems pointlessly lacking in function, the sequence window is very fussy and difficult to see more than a few tracks..

I think one way to go about making the transition to DP is to first assume that it *can* do what you want it to do. Then keep an open mind for how to do it. Also, it might be a good idea to keep a notebook and list the functions you'd like to figure out. This also keeps your most used clicks and moves in one place so that you don't always have to plow through the manual each time you need a simple reminder.

MOTU named "the tracks window" as the Tracks Overview. It's not intended to be what Logic's Arrange window is. It's an 'overview plus...", in a way. In fact, the Tracks Overview and the Sequence Editor actually are set apart to eliminate a lot of things which might otherwise clutter up one window.

The right side of the Tracks Overview is essentially all of your data at a glance. However, the left side of the window is loaded with purposeful functions such as essential MIDI and audio I/O routing assignments, among other things.

First, go to DP Preferences> Editing> Track Windows Setup. New users should at least activate everything until they have a chance to sort out which of the track columns they don't really need-- at which time those unneeded columns can be disabled. Once these track columns are setup, their default order can be changed by click-dragging on the name of the column left or right.

In the Sequence Editor, there are numerous options for resizing tracks individually and globally, both vertically and horizontally. The smaller the tracks, the more of them will be visible at once, but the amount of tracks you are using is not something DP can anticipate. Smaller tracks are harder to see, and in all DAWs some scrolling is necessary. How large or small you make the tracks is, thankfully, user definable.

Another thing that makes DP nice is the limited use of "hieroglyphics". Most things are in text form. When it says "volume" or "pan", that's exactly what it is. There is little or no guessing what a symbol does if it's activated. Even where a few symbols exist, just clicking on them *by and large* reveals what these features do.

But it will take a little time to customize your views, to learn and modify key commands, and to get DP set up to function the way you want it to. Window Sets are among my favorite features. You can add/remove/arrange window combinations any way you want and then assign each a key command.

Your project setups can also be saved as a Template in the file menu so that you may choose your custom template(s) with a single click from the File>Open menu. When you save "As Template", you will also be given the option to make the template DP's default template which opens up whenever you choose "New" from the file menu.

As with a lot of DAWs, there's more than one way to do just about everything you need to do.

[dmacintyre]

Some very helpful advice folks. Thanks very much and thank you for understanding I wasn't trying to be critical. Like I said, I thought Logic was unfathomable until the penny dropped with the environment. I know it is just a different workflow but there is something about DP which I just don't *get* at the moment.

It's a damp Sunday morning so the DP manuals are open on my lap and I am working on a simple 4/4 electronic track to get into it a bit more.

David