Misleading Demo - Symphonic Instrument

[MIDI Life Crisis]

For more details on the new MOTU demo, see related thread.

But has anyone noticed the caveat on the demos:

"ALSO FEATURES"?

They tastefully advise us that other sample libraries were used. You listen to the demo and think "Wow! Ethnic voices!!!" But those came from Ultimate Soundbank Vocal Collection.

There are several other sources credited which left me wondering what exactly am I buying?

To put this in another context, you check out the Apple site and they show you a video of the Mac running all this great software, but fail to tell you you need to buy another $1,000 worth of Adobe products, a Intuos tablet, a flat screen monitor and color laser printer.

Well, that simply does not happen. And while MOTU does advise us that other products are "also featured," THEY ARE SELLING A SAMPLE LIBRARY AND A PLAYER, damn it. And they really should provide samples that are limited to THAT product and not frame it around other samples which make them look good.

Where does the MOTU stuff end and the other stuff come in?

I really think this is rather deceptive and was done to conceal any flaws that might be present in their sample library. At least Garritan lets you hear HIS library without extras from someone else.

Add to this that the buzz was all about the violin solo in some Euro site touting Symph. Inst. Turns out that the violin WAS a REAL violin! THAT piece of info was not on the Euro sample site I saw. And is that sample now on the MOTU site with a credit as such. I didn't see it, but even if it is, I still say it is highly questionable to provide samples of a library for sale in this manner.

Garritan has my $$$ and I don't think MOTU will see a sale to Burbank at my address any time soon.

MM

[sdfalk]

Exactly..
If something about it bothers you, don't buy it.
Me, I'll wait until a copy arrives at my local music shop of choice and is installed.
Then if I like it, I'll buy it.
I really could care less about advertising practices.

[ABECK]

I agree that demo samples should include only pieces created with the application being advertised (no FX or supplimentary instruments). What does it say if the best examples of the software include outside material?

However, it looks like MOTU does specifically list where other samples are used.

[thracks]

Personally, I don't see this as a big deal. There are plenty examples of "M.S.I. only". The demo with the live violin was very helpful (to me). It gave me a good idea of how the plug-in will integrate with real instruments. Audio demos from many different vendors often do this. Look at the audio demos for the Korg Legacy Collection, almost every audio demo uses other sound sources not included in the final product. In fact, now that I think about it, more often than not the online audio demos I hear include other products. It's not at all deceptive as long as it is spelled out clearly, as it is on the demos MOTU has put up. Plus, I don't think MOTU had anything to do with that Euro site officially, so you can't blame MOTU for creating unworthy hype.

[Rush909]

I agree thracks.. besides, the elements they are adding from "other sources" do not influence the product they are selling... Bass and drumloops from other libraries do not "intersect" with what MOTU is offereing, which is essentially an orchestral library... when I listen to these demos I usually listen to everything BUT what the company explicitly is telling me I would not be getting as part of their product... Now If MOTU did not mention what elements are not from the library or if they say that certain elements were from the VSL or something then I would be worried....

r.

[chrispick]

To note: MOTU offers a pretty large variety of mp3 samples here.

You get to hear SI tunes with other third-party instrumentation (which is how it'll often be used in practical situations), SI-only tunes and a bunch of single instrument samples. And all are labeled as such, so there's no duplicity to my mind.

From all this data, you can generally surmise what SI is capable of.

<small>[ July 29, 2005, 12:58 PM: Message edited by: heavypick ]</small>

[chrispick]

Originally posted by sdfalk:

Me, I'll wait until a copy arrives at my local music shop of choice and is installed.
Then if I like it, I'll buy it.
I really could care less about advertising practices.

But isn't that an advertising practice?

[studiodog]

Ever bought a Big Mac that looked like the one in the commercials ?

[kwiz]

Originally posted by studio dog:
Ever bought a Big Mac that looked like the one in the commercials ?

True dat.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Originally posted by heavypick:

Originally posted by sdfalk:

Me, I'll wait until a copy arrives at my local music shop of choice and is installed.
Then if I like it, I'll buy it.
I really could care less about advertising practices.

But isn't that an advertising practice?

West LA Universal doesn't know if they will get a demo copy. If they don't, there will not be an instore demo.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Originally posted by studio dog:
Ever bought a Big Mac that looked like the one in the commercials ?

Or a Whopper for that matter!

[woodlakesound]

Originally posted by MIDI Life Crisis:
For more details on the new MOTU demo, see related thread.

But has anyone noticed the caveat on the demos:

"ALSO FEATURES"?

They tastefully advise us that other sample libraries were used. You listen to the demo and think "Wow! Ethnic voices!!!" But those came from Ultimate Soundbank Vocal Collection.

There are several other sources credited which left me wondering what exactly am I buying?

To put this in another context, you check out the Apple site and they show you a video of the Mac running all this great software, but fail to tell you you need to buy another $1,000 worth of Adobe products, a Intuos tablet, a flat screen monitor and color laser printer.

Well, that simply does not happen. And while MOTU does advise us that other products are "also featured," THEY ARE SELLING A SAMPLE LIBRARY AND A PLAYER, damn it. And they really should provide samples that are limited to THAT product and not frame it around other samples which make them look good.

Where does the MOTU stuff end and the other stuff come in?

I really think this is rather deceptive and was done to conceal any flaws that might be present in their sample library. At least Garritan lets you hear HIS library without extras from someone else.

Add to this that the buzz was all about the violin solo in some Euro site touting Symph. Inst. Turns out that the violin WAS a REAL violin! THAT piece of info was not on the Euro sample site I saw. And is that sample now on the MOTU site with a credit as such. I didn't see it, but even if it is, I still say it is highly questionable to provide samples of a library for sale in this manner.

Garritan has my $$$ and I don't think MOTU will see a sale to Burbank at my address any time soon.

MM

Since you caught the caveat you do not need to expound on how deceptive it is. It is actually rather illustrative of how the library DOES interact with other sounds not included. It's all there for the discerning musician to sort out and really not all that deceptive to the intelligent consumer. Just listen to the examples on the preset examples page. That is what one needs to check out.

[mongoose]

What's the problem?

They have songs using nothing but the MSI, and they have songs showing how the MSI integrates with other samplers or live instruments. If you think this isn't a problem, you've either got not much experience in this area, have been very lucky, or are an amazing engineer. I actually consider the inclusion of this stuff a plus.

At any rate, the 'all-MSI' and 'have some other stuff' songs are clearly labeled; there is no guesswork involved on our part and no deception that I can see on MOTU's part.

Heck, they even have samples of the individual instruments up to hear.

[billf]

Originally posted by heavypick:

On the MOTU website, they do tell you what is and isn't SI in these samples. This has been noted more than once on this thread.

Yeah, I just went back and saw that. So I take back my previous post. Earlier in the week when I was at the site they just had the sound files posted.

Anyway, take a listen to David Das's piece on the site, which according to the blurb on the site was done with one instance of the plugin. It sounds awesome.

<small>[ July 29, 2005, 04:51 PM: Message edited by: TimeMist ]</small>

[chrispick]

Originally posted by TimeMist:
They should note what is SI and what isn't.

On the MOTU website, they do tell you what is and isn't SI in these samples. This has been noted more than once on this thread.