What's up with Steinberg and Notation?
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- joelfriedman
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What's up with Steinberg and Notation?
For those interested in the formerly-of-Sibelius team that was sacked by Avid and now works at Steinberg on notation: http://blog.steinberg.net/2013/08/devel ... urce=pubv1
Stepping aside from the Finale vs Sibelius wars:
1. I wish Avid had never bought Sibelius...
2. I'm curious what the team is going to cook up.
3. So.. how is Cubase?
Stepping aside from the Finale vs Sibelius wars:
1. I wish Avid had never bought Sibelius...
2. I'm curious what the team is going to cook up.
3. So.. how is Cubase?
Joel Friedman
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- HCMarkus
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Re: What's up with Steinberg and Notation?
Dunno... I use DP.
- mikehalloran
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Re: What's up with Steinberg and Notation?
After reading that, I can't imagine being interested in yet another product that would want me to look at a familiar task, notation, from a different approach that would require a different learning process.
So this new product is to be a rewrite of Score which has maybe 10 people still using it? I remember Steve Wozniak going on about the superiority of the Apple II over the Mac in the early days (remember the GS?) but I can't imagine him spending his money trying to bring a text based OS into the 21st C. Re-read that blog if you think my comparison is off.
Am I missing something something? Is whatever this becomes DOA?
Finale is actually pretty good. I understand there is still hope for Sibelius, not that I care. Notion and.a few others have their fans.
Cubase? Yea, right... Amateur hour for PC users. It doesn't open older versions. I understand there's a grown up version but why, now that DP is available? I don't know anyone who uses the Mac version no matter how much hardware comes bundled with it.
So this new product is to be a rewrite of Score which has maybe 10 people still using it? I remember Steve Wozniak going on about the superiority of the Apple II over the Mac in the early days (remember the GS?) but I can't imagine him spending his money trying to bring a text based OS into the 21st C. Re-read that blog if you think my comparison is off.
Am I missing something something? Is whatever this becomes DOA?
Finale is actually pretty good. I understand there is still hope for Sibelius, not that I care. Notion and.a few others have their fans.
Cubase? Yea, right... Amateur hour for PC users. It doesn't open older versions. I understand there's a grown up version but why, now that DP is available? I don't know anyone who uses the Mac version no matter how much hardware comes bundled with it.
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- joelfriedman
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Re: What's up with Steinberg and Notation?
Yeah, I hear you. I posted it mainly for interest. I'm a long-time Sibelius user (formerly of Finale) and I'm saddened to see it under a cloud not of its own doing, kinda like Opcode. Avid is the new Gibson?
I posted it mainly for interest as there was a lot of buzz in the composer & engraver community when Daniel and crew was 1st sacked by Avid and then picked up by Steinberg. The blog seems a bit esoteric, maybe TMI from a programmer, and I'm VERY happy with DP (and have way too much to learn before deciding I'd ever need to switch). I really do wish that there was better alignment between the companies I use for audio and notation. I'm just hoping for a "happy ending" of some sort.
I posted it mainly for interest as there was a lot of buzz in the composer & engraver community when Daniel and crew was 1st sacked by Avid and then picked up by Steinberg. The blog seems a bit esoteric, maybe TMI from a programmer, and I'm VERY happy with DP (and have way too much to learn before deciding I'd ever need to switch). I really do wish that there was better alignment between the companies I use for audio and notation. I'm just hoping for a "happy ending" of some sort.
Joel Friedman
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Web: http://www.joelfriedman.com
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Re: What's up with Steinberg and Notation?
Some PC versions are OK. Some Mac versions are dodgy ports from Windows with slow screen graphics. Steinberg has a bad habit of dropping useful features, and adding new stuff no one was asking for, and their record on bug fixes is not great. On the plus side, it's easier to learn than most daws, and has some features that have been on the DP wishlist for a long time.joelfriedman wrote: So.. how is Cubase?
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- mhschmieder
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Re: What's up with Steinberg and Notation?
Easier to learn? I'm fairly expert at MIDI, and after 100 hours, I still couldn't get Cubase to work on my old Mac. Maybe it's gotten better. Between the five user manuals (and different ways of doing things), having to "think in ASIO terms" without any Windows audio experience, and possible undocumented crippling of the light version that I had, I almost had a nervous breakdown. Later, at an AES Show, I found out from the horse's mouth that indeed MIDI didn't work on the Mac in that version of Cubase. I never went back for a second try, partly because I also had an unsatisfactory experience trying out the Mac port of Wavelab.
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Re: What's up with Steinberg and Notation?
Some of the Cubase conventions are a bit different from those of Logic or DP, but I think the manual by the time SX 3 was released was pretty good, and not so difficult to get through. One reason the learning curve is faster is the MIDI editing is not as detailed. A lot is left to a sort of boolean logical event editor (whose name I forget). That is totally opaque, like the Logic environment, or Dr T's master editor. So if that's what you were trying to use, my sympathies.
As for whether it worked on a Mac, a lot of stuff was broken around V4, and got fixed over the next two versions. I hear it got broken again in V7.
As for whether it worked on a Mac, a lot of stuff was broken around V4, and got fixed over the next two versions. I hear it got broken again in V7.
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- mhschmieder
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Re: What's up with Steinberg and Notation?
I was never able to get Cubase AI4 (or whatever it was called) to pass MIDI signal, after 100 hours of trying. The worst experience I've had with any app in my entire life.
iMac 27" 2017 Quad-Core Intel i5 (3.8 GHz, 64 GB), OSX 13.6.6, MOTU DP 11.31, iZotope RX 10
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Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, Johhny Marr Jaguar, 57 LP, Danelectro 12
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Guild Bari, 1512 12-string, M20, Martin OM28VTS, Larivee 0040MH
Re: What's up with Steinberg and Notation?
AI is the stripped down version you get bundled with hardware isn't it? And Cubase V4 was a general disaster. AI4 would have been a stripped down disaster. That's where I dropped it after spending upwards of $3K on Cubase licences.
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-
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Re: What's up with Steinberg and Notation?
I find Sibelius a great companion to DP though I only use it for the final stages producing charts or scores . DP is just so much obviously better for everything except professional notation. When charts /scores are needed I record it all in DP then quantize a copy of the file including note lengths save it as MIDI file then open in Sibelius. It still can take some cleaning up of note lengths and track names etc before adding the expressions and slurs etc there in Sibelius but i find it over all way quicker than starting the chart from the beginning in Sibelius.
Quickscribe is great as an editing window but I find it's just not there yet for professional scores.
I have wondered though why MOTU doesn't port over their old Mosiac notation program code to DP. Add a few features and modern it up a bit , then maybe I wouldn't even need to use Sibelius!
By the way Sibelius has not left Avid. That was all a Internet rumour. I asked avid about it when I had to re register Sibelius 7 on the phone because of a migrating computer issue. The tech said its all un true about Sibelius leaving Avid. They have even released updates since the rumour mill has been active in cyberspace. My chart making companion to DP lives on !
Quickscribe is great as an editing window but I find it's just not there yet for professional scores.
I have wondered though why MOTU doesn't port over their old Mosiac notation program code to DP. Add a few features and modern it up a bit , then maybe I wouldn't even need to use Sibelius!
By the way Sibelius has not left Avid. That was all a Internet rumour. I asked avid about it when I had to re register Sibelius 7 on the phone because of a migrating computer issue. The tech said its all un true about Sibelius leaving Avid. They have even released updates since the rumour mill has been active in cyberspace. My chart making companion to DP lives on !
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Re: What's up with Steinberg and Notation?
While it's true that Sibelius is still owned by Avid, there's been no update of Sibelius itself for just under a year. The current version is 7.1.3 which was released just before the London development team was completely dismissed (I think they were all gone by the end of October). The "rumour" started as a result of Daniel Spreadbury & team's departure, or as soon as that news broke. There's just been an update of Scorch, but that's not Sibelius....Paulformer wrote:By the way Sibelius has not left Avid. That was all a Internet rumour. I asked avid about it when I had to re register Sibelius 7 on the phone because of a migrating computer issue. The tech said its all un true about Sibelius leaving Avid. They have even released updates since the rumour mill has been active in cyberspace. My chart making companion to DP lives on !
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- ChrisByrd
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Re: What's up with Steinberg and Notation?
I was trying to remember whether 7.1.3 had been released just before or after the old team departed, so thanks for confirming that Nigel. The interesting thing will be to see what Sibelius 8 (if it appears) will be like, and also what the new Finale offers (I moved back to Finale after the Sibelius team was sacked).Nigel Keay wrote: While it's true that Sibelius is still owned by Avid, there's been no update of Sibelius itself for just under a year. The current version is 7.1.3 which was released just before the London development team was completely dismissed (I think they were all gone by the end of October). The "rumour" started as a result of Daniel Spreadbury & team's departure, or as soon as that news broke. There's just been an update of Scorch, but that's not Sibelius....
I do think the new notation software being developed by Daniel & team has a future - Avid have managed to alienate a lot of Sibelius users, particularly in the UK - including many of the schools and colleges who helped to give Sibelius market dominance. For some reason MakeMusic have never put much effort into penetrating the UK market, which I think is a shame.
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- MIDI Life Crisis
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Re: What's up with Steinberg and Notation?
I suspect the new Finale version will be an extensive rewrite since it drops all support for anything pre-64 bit (Lion or better). Not so sure about the PC side.
Hopefully that will kill a lot of bugs and streamline things a bit. They claim some new features as well.
Fingers and parts (musical lines, that is) crossed.
Hopefully that will kill a lot of bugs and streamline things a bit. They claim some new features as well.
Fingers and parts (musical lines, that is) crossed.
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Re: What's up with Steinberg and Notation?
Chris, I found (rather easily) Daniel's announcement just before signing off, in fact it was the end of September 2012: http://www.sibeliusblog.com/news/sibelius-7-1-3-update-now-available/
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- joelfriedman
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Re: What's up with Steinberg and Notation?
Daniel & Co. are smart guys. And it's a real shame what happened. That's why I originally posted the blog entry. Yeah, it's too esoteric etc., etc. but it's an interesting development that Steinberg swooped in and picked up all of these people, gave them a "think-tank," and I have to hope that something good will come out of it. How often do companies do that?
I just downloaded the new Scorch and I STILL can't get it to work properly! I'm not sure why it won't work, but I'm thinking it may have something to do with my browser privacy settings (and things like DoNotTrackMe or Ghostery interfering). Wish I knew...
There is a lot I like about Sibelius. I hope there is a decent new version etc. on the near horizon.
Maybe I'll have to take a look at the new Finale. I'd have to party like it was 1999 all over again (pretty literally, actually)!
Best,
Joel
I just downloaded the new Scorch and I STILL can't get it to work properly! I'm not sure why it won't work, but I'm thinking it may have something to do with my browser privacy settings (and things like DoNotTrackMe or Ghostery interfering). Wish I knew...
There is a lot I like about Sibelius. I hope there is a decent new version etc. on the near horizon.
Maybe I'll have to take a look at the new Finale. I'd have to party like it was 1999 all over again (pretty literally, actually)!
Best,
Joel
Joel Friedman
Web: http://www.joelfriedman.com
SoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/joelfriedman
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Web: http://www.joelfriedman.com
SoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/joelfriedman
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/pub/joel-friedman/1b/7b2/8a9
iMacPro 2017 3.2 GHz, OS 13.6,3 32GB RAM, 4 1 TB HD's (boot, project, and samples), MOTU UltraLite MK4, Nektar Impact LX88
DP 11.3, MachFive 3.2, MX4 2.2, Ethno 2.01, Komplete 14 Ultimate (don't ask...), Sibelius Ultimate, Symphobia v. 1.06, assorted libraries...
MacBook Pro M1 16 GB RAM OS 13.6.3