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I was just on the NI site and agreed to answer a "15-minute" survey. After several questions, it became clear that the survey was a poorly hidden ploy to hype a subscription model for their software. At some point the questions were cleverly trying to force me to endorse subscriptions. Eventually, I had to quit the survey because it wouldn't allow my honest answers.

Based on how awful this survey was, I'm guessing something horrible is around the corner. I guess the question will be how they'l handle people who have already purchased products.

A few weeks ago, I purchased the "Spotlight Collection" library which has these location-based sets of "world music" sounds. Three days later, NI released IRELAND. I asked if I could have it "grandfathered" into my collection, and they said it wasn't included-- but it should be IMHO.

Maybe this will be the lead balloon of the Waves subscription model.

Perhaps the iZotope side of the company will let NI know what a disaster that was. The iZ subscription model still exists but no one wants it and no one talks about it anymore.

I’m pretty much ready to lock down my Mac Studio into appliance mode. So many VIs, more than enough to do just about any sort of music I want or need to produce. Maybe a special purpose Kontakt library will be added now and then, but I’d need to see something EXTREMELY compelling from NI to update Komplete again.

HCMarkus wrote: ↑Mon Dec 25, 2023 11:33 am I’m pretty much ready to lock down my Mac Studio into appliance mode.

"Appliance mode". I really like that.

Evolving chips & systems (i.e., progress) provides a never ending trickle of new features floating on a stream of broken darlings.

For some of us, experience teaches us to resist or at least delay updates. For some of us, the idea of locking down a system is very appealing. But it is quite complicated.

My $0.02

I think a subscription model for NI is inevitable. Trying to meet revenue targets based on sales of Komplete isn’t really viable anymore given the size of the thing. I think a lot of people might buy the one or two interesting libraries that come out during the year and that makes upgrading to Komplete a whole lot less compelling. I update only very occasionally now and that’s only during their 50% off sales. Not a good revenue model especially from their new VC owner’s perspective.

iZotope’s sub model failed in part (imho) because their product line and bundles was, and remains, a hot mess. It’s the single most confusing set of products out there. A simple “$14.95/mo for everything” model with an option to acquire permanent licenses based on subscription payments (Ala Roland Cloud) would be welcome on my end.

stubbsonic wrote: ↑Mon Dec 25, 2023 1:35 pm "Appliance mode". I really like that.

Same here. Other than updating DP.

I went to appliance mode a while ago. I tried building a “Monterey” appliance, but it didn’t work any better than what I have. And certainly didn’t make better music. I’m still the main limitation on that front.

I’ve been put off by the dozens of threads dealing with problems caused by hardware and OS updates that have questionable value. Some have to do the updates because they bought new computers, but otherwise, it seems to me to be a waste of time.

If there are many of us that choose this path, then subs is the only way to go for some software companies.

I definitely think about this a lot. Mac OS is pretty great, but the downside is OS's breaking things, part of the process of a company that's on it's third chip in 17 odd years.

In every case I've lost plugins to updates, the list is too long to list, but an example of how lame it can get, Camel audio Alchemy, Phat and Space all lost their GUI's in a Mojave update. I thought I was safe sticking to Mojave for the old Mac Pro, but some "security" update killed the Camel products. Recently some Chicken Little posts from a plugin developer had me switch to Sonoma on the Mac Studio here. Most of the time you can use plugins that are not X.0 OS ready without issue, but I do get some weird behavior and crashy ness from DP etc.

So IMO freezing an OS at a known lauded as solid version is a smart thing. It's just harder to do that than it sounds. Smartest thing without too much self control is to wait months before updating elet everyone else "beta test" and work out the bugs, or stay a full version behind.

I guess I have a "Mavericks Appliance Mode" Mac Mini (2012). I keep wi-fi OFF so it is quarantined from the internet. I run DP 9.12 and MachFive3 and Garritan's Instant Orchestra on it. I haven't updated or changed anything on it for years and it works great.....very reliable! Instead of spending my time looking for the latest software updates, I look for new song ideas....I use a separate MacBook Pro (also 2012) for my day job and internet surfing and e-mail. 2012 was a VERY good year for Macs: Firewire 400, USB 3, and Thunderbolt 1 on both my Mac Mini and my MBP, and the I-7 processors have 4 cores. Subsequent Mac Minis were downgraded for many years with weaker processors....

It is a testament to the build quality of Apple products that my 11 or 12 year old Macs still run great! It's the legacy of Steve Jobs, I suppose, who believed in building quality machines that looked great on the outside and the inside....great attention to detail! Thanks, Steve! A good Mac is a great long-term investment in my opinion....

Doug

So, building on my previous post, it is a great idea to have 2 macs if you can afford it: One in "appliance mode" for critical older software, and another that is updated regularly for newer stuff.

Doug

I guess I can see why NI was trying to manipulate me with a fake survey.

The only software subscription I have is an annual pmt to a metronome app- via Apple. I bent my rule about subscriptions because I really like the app & developer.

I suppose I'll make other exceptions along the way, and figure out some way to keep track of them.

Not a fan of the subscription model at all! If anything developers will need to have highly compelling offerings to get me to jump on board that model. I'm not going for the new "you-will-own-nothing-and-like-it" model that is being pushed on us in so many industries today. I understand businesses want predictable income streams, but I this is an area where the consumer and the industry are in very clear conflict. Waves learned the hard way and they compounded the problem by not giving any warning and using the very real threat of forcing Intel Mac users who let their WUP expire into subscriptions to get Apple Silicon compatibility. I believe the timing of that was no mistake. They seriously damaged their relationship with end users with that move.

Unlike some here, my studio is really just for my own personal use, so I can afford to flirt with the bleeding edge sometimes when it comes to OS versions. Some of this was forced on me when I decided it was time for me to modernize and hopefully set myself up for the next decade. The introduction of Apple Silicon and specifically the announcement of the Mac Studio was the push I needed to jump in. So some of this updating was necessary. It's really getting to be time to let go of Intel machines, save for special purpose rigs that we might use to run legacy software as needed.

Back to the subject of subscriptions, I might theorize that these larger developers who are publicly owned will be under pressure to enhance revenue and push subscriptions. This may turn out to be a boon for small one-to-two person shops that don't have the same overhead and for whom the traditional perpetual license model with paid updates can still generate adequate revenue. This is pro audio after all. It's niche and thanks to the internet, word travels fast about good plugins by small developers. Massive marketing budges aren't necessarily required for the smaller independent developers.

Of course if you are a small developer, protecting your intellectual property is important as you can't sustain the losses that could occur from widespread piracy of any of your product line which is likely smaller than big developers. I don't know what PACE charges for licensing iLok, but I'd love to see them reduce fees or implement some sort of pricing structure to make it affordable on small independent developers.

Maybe what's coming is that plugin developers will be forced to streamline a bit? This might be felt by the end user (and perhaps it already is) by seeing poorer quality control and testing before products hit the market? All the price cutting we're seeing and competition in the plugin market is probably making things difficult on large developers. Seems like the damn really broke when Universal Audio got into the native market and then began aggressively discounting.

Interesting times ahead. But perhaps it's an opportunity for the "little guy" to flourish?

stubbsonic wrote: ↑Tue Dec 26, 2023 10:43 amThe only software subscription I have is an annual pmt to a metronome app- via Apple. I bent my rule about subscriptions because I really like the app & developer.

Only software subscription I have is for Pro Tools. Bought a perpetual license "second hand" for Pro Tools Studio for $300 a few years back. To date, I've renewed my "support" twice at $199 a pop which comes due every October if I recall. The idea at the time was to have that handy in case I needed to track drums, etc. at a studio with Pro Tools. I figured much easier for me to then take the project home and move it over to Digital Performer myself.

Also I have been investigating other DAWs to sort of feel out what might be a good secondary DAW to learn. So I have current versions of Logic Pro, Cubase 13 Pro, Pro Tools 2023.12, and DP 11.3. DP of course is my favorite. After dabbling with all of them, I find myself intrigued by the responsiveness of Cubase's GUI, etc. but intellectually I feel like after DP, having some facility with Pro Tools might be more practical. Logic is cool... but just don't feel too drawn to it.

There certainly is a lot of pushback to software subscriptions, and I’m not keen on the idea But how much of this is financial? How much of it is emotional? Over the years I’ve probably spent over $1,500 just ton DP. If you took into account inflation etc, it’s probably costing me about $100 a year or more.

bayswater wrote: ↑Tue Dec 26, 2023 11:58 amBut how much of this is financial? How much of it is emotional?

Treading lightly here as not to inadvertently stumble into politics which is verboten, the subject of subscription services is interesting... including things like Spotify, Apple Music, Netflix, etc.

Personally, I'm viscerally against subscriptions and am inclined to resist them at all costs as long as I can. However, I've heard of research that this is generational. Gen Z, etc are more receptive to subscription services than earlier generations. I'm admittedly a boomer. The very tail end of the boom, but a boomer nonetheless. My generation is one of the generations that wants to OWN things... not rent them. And it may not even be rational when you break it down financially, but we will pay a premium for the peace of mind that comes with knowing that it can't be taken away from us. We want perpetual licenses for our software. We want to know it will keep working should some crazy sort of unforeseen event happen and we miss a subscription payment or can't re-up support, etc.

It might be that as younger generation users who grew up with subscription services (of all kinds) begin to make up the majority of plugin customers, the developers will finally win out and be able to push a subscription only model. In the meantime, there are still enough of us that are perhaps 40 and older who will push back and that pushback is meaningful until we are no longer a significant portion of the user base.... at least not enough to frighten developers away from implementing subscriptions. Waves got thoroughly spanked and IMHO deserved every bit of it for how they implemented it. But I have no doubt they are biding their time. They must know that the shift in age demographics over time may ultimately make it possible to try again.