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Just wondering if there are any brave, intrepid souls out there who can report back on how Ventura is working for them with DP and their plug-ins. I'm tempted to give it a whirl... but anxious to see if the "coast has cleared" a little for DAW work since Ventura was first released?

Perhaps it would be good to also get get comments on experience with hardware, like keyboards, converters, etc.

The only problem I know of is the inability to export movie files, something I don’t do, but I'm perfectly willing to sit here on Monterey for a while.

cuttime wrote: ↑Tue Jan 03, 2023 1:20 pm The only problem I know of is the inability to export movie files, something I don’t do, but I'm perfectly willing to sit here on Monterey for a while.

I forgot about that one. That’s reason enough for me. I don’t usually do that, either. But the moment I install Ventura, I could just imagine a situation would come up where I need it!

James Steele wrote: ↑Tue Jan 03, 2023 2:27 pm

cuttime wrote: ↑Tue Jan 03, 2023 1:20 pm The only problem I know of is the inability to export movie files, something I don’t do, but I'm perfectly willing to sit here on Monterey for a while.

I forgot about that one. That’s reason enough for me. I don’t usually do that, either. But the moment I install Ventura, I could just imagine a situation would come up where I need it!

Oooh...and I just saw the refreshed thread about bounce to disk errors. No Ventura for me.

I may make some time and check out those issues on my Intel machine but I have to find a few hours first. APFS Snapshots will allow me to Revert to Monterey when I'm done as long as I don't miss the 24 hour window.

When contemplating the update from Mojave to Catalina, I did this 8 or 9 times over six months before determining that I could commit to OS 10.15.

mikehalloran wrote: ↑Tue Jan 03, 2023 5:19 pmAPFS Snapshots will allow me to Revert to Monterey when I'm done as long as I don't miss the 24 hour window.

Is that the longest the OS keeps a snapshot for? I remember last time I rolled back, I had three snapshots on the local boot volume, and two of them were within the last couple of hours. I have a OWC Drive Dock, so I've taken to periodically making a backup of my boot drive to a spinner using that and Carbon Copy Cloner which I just updated today to v.6 from v.5 for $20. Redundancy never hurts.

James Steele wrote: ↑Tue Jan 03, 2023 5:59 pm

mikehalloran wrote: ↑Tue Jan 03, 2023 5:19 pmAPFS Snapshots will allow me to Revert to Monterey when I'm done as long as I don't miss the 24 hour window.

Is that the longest the OS keeps a snapshot for? I remember last time I rolled back, I had three snapshots on the local boot volume, and two of them were within the last couple of hours. I have a OWC Drive Dock, so I've taken to periodically making a backup of my boot drive to a spinner using that and Carbon Copy Cloner which I just updated today to v.6 from v.5 for $20. Redundancy never hurts.

I had to go into Recovery after screwing up a Premiere upgrade and accidentally overwriting a video last week (lots of help from a terrible Adobe installer). Easiest way to fix was go backwards a few hours and try again (success!).

Although I now have over 1TB room on my System drive, my earliest Snapshot was 23 hours 56 minutes old. So yes, that still applies. So, Apple's claim that Snapshots are stored as long as there is space is wrong.

mikehalloran wrote: ↑Wed Jan 04, 2023 3:54 pmSo, Apple's claim that Snapshots are stored as long as there is space is wrong.

Well, that's really useful information for sure! Glad I have conventional time machine backup. Like I said, I've started using my OWC Drive Dock to make periodic CCC backups of my boot volume to a 500GB Seagate Barracuda drive I pulled from an older system. It's a spinner... not as fast as a SSD... but just one more option should disaster strike.

James Steele wrote: ↑Wed Jan 04, 2023 4:53 pm

mikehalloran wrote: ↑Wed Jan 04, 2023 3:54 pmSo, Apple's claim that Snapshots are stored as long as there is space is wrong.

… Glad I have conventional time machine backup. …

If Time Machine is not turned on, those APFS Snapshots are not generated.

I have three 14TB TM volumes in rotation. Set it and forget it.. CCC and the other one are just APIs over Time Machine anymore but if you want to back up only one volume, I can see having it..

mikehalloran wrote: ↑Wed Jan 04, 2023 9:00 pmCCC and the other one (Super Duper, I presume) are just APIs over Time Machine

This is interesting info, Mike.

I've been looking into this recently and leaned that, since Big Sur, programs that want to copy the OS must rely upon Apple's replicator ('asr') to perform the task. There's no choice. And there tend to be issues every time Apple unleashes a new version of macOS.

Some claim Time Machine is unreliable, less so than CCC. If CCC is simply an API over TM, this claim would seem, logically, to be false. Clearly, CCC has value in that it allows management of backups on a more granular level than TM. But I discovered this at the Bombich website (emphasis added):

Copying Apple's system is now an Apple-proprietary endeavor; we can only offer "best effort" support for making an external bootable device on macOS Big Sur (and later OSes). We present this functionality in support of making ad hoc bootable copies of the system that you will use immediately (e.g. when migrating to a different disk, or for testing purposes), but we do not support nor recommend making bootable copies of the system as part of a backup strategy.

Please bear in mind that you can restore all of your documents, applications, and system settings from a standard CCC backup without the extra effort involved in establishing and maintaining a bootable device.

Anything you'd like to add here? Thanks!

HCMarkus wrote: ↑Wed Jan 04, 2023 10:03 pm

Some claim Time Machine is unreliable, less so than CCC. If CCC is simply an API over TM, this claim would seem, logically, to be false. Clearly, CCC has value in that it allows management of backups on a more granular level than TM. But I discovered this at the Bombich website (emphasis added):

Copying Apple's system is now an Apple-proprietary endeavor; we can only offer "best effort" support for making an external bootable device on macOS Big Sur (and later OSes). We present this functionality in support of making ad hoc bootable copies of the system that you will use immediately (e.g. when migrating to a different disk, or for testing purposes), but we do not support nor recommend making bootable copies of the system as part of a backup strategy.

Please bear in mind that you can restore all of your documents, applications, and system settings from a standard CCC backup without the extra effort involved in establishing and maintaining a bootable device.

Anything you'd like to add here? Thanks!

Not really. Cloning was always possible in Terminal and Disk Utility if you knew where to look—but it couldn't create the Repair Partition (till they finally added routines that ran a portion of the MacOS Installer — shhhhhh, don't tell anyone!). Both companies added a pretty good scheduler but the products weren't sold on that.

My problem was the marketing of the products. Pretending that they brought things to the table that weren't otherwise possible was disingenuous. Once they announced that they "worked with Time Machine and supported APFS Snapshots", the jig was up. Though not quite an admission of what the products have always been, that's as close as I can expect.

I used CCC in my school networks to clone System drives through OS 10.4—faster than rewriting my scripts with each OS release. With 10.5, Apple released a set of networking tools that let me do it all from a server and I never needed it again.

mikehalloran wrote: ↑Wed Jan 04, 2023 9:00 pm

James Steele wrote: ↑Wed Jan 04, 2023 4:53 pm … Glad I have conventional time machine backup. …

If Time Machine is not turned on, those APFS Snapshots are not generated.

Understood. Time Machine IS turned on. I'm backing up the boot volume with CCC just to augment the time machine backup. And it's just the boot volume.

HCMarkus wrote: ↑Wed Jan 04, 2023 10:03 pmSome claim Time Machine is unreliable, less so than CCC. If CCC is simply an API over TM, this claim would seem, logically, to be false. Clearly, CCC has value in that it allows management of backups on a more granular level than TM. But I discovered this at the Bombich website (emphasis added):

Copying Apple's system is now an Apple-proprietary endeavor; we can only offer "best effort" support for making an external bootable device on macOS Big Sur (and later OSes). We present this functionality in support of making ad hoc bootable copies of the system that you will use immediately (e.g. when migrating to a different disk, or for testing purposes), but we do not support nor recommend making bootable copies of the system as part of a backup strategy.

Please bear in mind that you can restore all of your documents, applications, and system settings from a standard CCC backup without the extra effort involved in establishing and maintaining a bootable device.

Well, then I just pissed away $20 on the upgraded from CCC v5 to v6. What's the point then of backing up the boot drive if, well, they don't guarantee it to boot? They just described part of my backup strategy which I now find is obsolete. Great. So Time Machine has become the only game in town now?

I'm not even sure of the procedure to restore my boot drive if I need something earlier than the snapshots stored locally in the previous 24 hours. I haven't tried booting in Recover mode and choosing one of my Time Machine drives rather than the local volume to find a snapshot. I'm doing Time Machine backup rotating between two 8TB external drives.

James Steele wrote: ↑Wed Jan 04, 2023 11:18 pm I'm not even sure of the procedure to restore my boot drive if I need something earlier than the snapshots stored locally in the previous 24 hours. I haven't tried booting in Recover mode and choosing one of my Time Machine drives rather than the local volume to find a snapshot. I'm doing Time Machine backup rotating between two 8TB external drives.

Just boot into recovery, reinstall the OS from Apple, then restore from your preferred TM or CCC backup. You don't need to make the backup a bootable clone.

CCC still has some good tools that may come in handy, regardless.