Which new Mac Pro is optimal for a DP DAW?

[Renaissance Man]

I'm still using my early 2008 Mac Pro Intel machine (see specs below). Due to the Mac OS (El Capitan) I've been stuck in limbo as far as any software upgrades or additions. I waited for a long time for Apple to come out with the new Mac towers. But now that they're here, the cost of admission is to say the least staggering! I'm still trying to get My head wrapped around it! That and there are many levels to choose from. I don't want to overbuy but at the same time I want to future proof as much as is possible. If any of you have any council as to what would be a good entry point I would greatly appreciate it. I've been spoiled by the solid performance (for the most part) that I've had on my previous Power macs and current 2008 Intel machine. There is no love lost between Microsoft PC and me and I've been told that it is something to steer away from as a DAW anyway. Any thoughts? Not looking to start a war here, just trying to figure out the best way to go.

[Michael Canavan]

This is always a loaded question, and even more so right now. The current 2019 Mac Pros are running Intel chips. which have maybe 6 years before being obsolete, i.e. Mac OS will stop supporting Intel machines 5 years after the last batch is sold, which according to their own words will be next year. In typical fashion, there will be OS level features that will not work well, or maybe not at all on Intel Macs over the next 5 years. As you may know, Apple is starting to make it's own silicon, they have 4 lower end products out now with those chips in them, that are probably twice as fast as your 08 Pro. The next couple batches should double that again, and the Apple Silicon based Mac Pro will probably skunk them all including multicore PCs. DP11 is Apple Silicon ready, so are quite a few plug ins, most of the bigger companies are not yet, (NI, iZotope, PSP, Sound Toys, Arturia, Plugin Allience) but they will work with a slight CPU hit under Rosetta, or sometimes as an Audio Unit natively.

The choice is not so great IMO right now for die hards like me and you (09 Mac Pro, 2012 Macbook Pro), because IMO it's not a good idea if you're thinking 10 years on a computer to buy the Intel models, but the real killer Apple Silicon has not been announced yet. The next round of Apple Silicon is expected to be announced sometime this month, it should include a 10 core chip, or double the performance of the initial M1. The line up includes a 16" Macbook Pro, and likely a 14", plus possibly a replacement for the Mac Mini "Server" they used to sell, and possibly a mid range 27" iMac, all with the same 10 core chip.

If you were interested in a computer for 5 years then the Intel Macs are great, but if you want to just keep a machine around forever, I would strongly recommend waiting to see what they announce. The current Apple Silicon macs are doing great things for people, they all rate at around the performance of my 12 core Mac Pro, fitted with M.2 SSDs, etc. This is with an essentially 5 core machine, (the M1 uses 4 Performance, and 4 "efficiency" cores that only equal about 1 Performance core in power), the next batch is expected to have 8 Performance and 2 Efficiency cores.

I think in almost every single use case, the rumored upcoming 10 core model will be plenty for everyone beyond massive VEP setups etc. and well worth dealing with Rosetta again over if need be.

[HCMarkus]

It should noted that the current M1-powered Macs (MacBook Air, 13" MacBook Pro and M1 Mac Mini) ALL run circles around your 2008 Mac Pro. In fact, they all geek bench higher than my 3.33gHz 12 Core 5,1, which at least two times more powerful than the fastest 2008 Mac Pro. The current generation of M1 Macs may thus be more than you need, depending on your requirements. As Mr. Canavan notes, the next gen Apple Silicon CPUs will likely be something in the realm of twice as powerful as the current M1 and should be absolutely superb for DAW work.

The caveats? #1 is the fact that much DAW software is not yet Apple Silicon native. Sure, DP is ready to roll, but what about your plugins? I can advise that many plugins run well under Rosetta2, the Intel to M1 translation software Apple provides. I am currently running Apple's MainStage on an M1 MacBook Air for live work, and have several Native Instruments VIs (Kontakt and FM8) working perfectly therein under Rosetta2. But it will likely still be awhile until all your favorite plugins are Apple Silicon native... and maybe never for a few.

#2... you are going to need a new USB or Thunderbolt audio interface.

#3 - 23... who knows?

I'm still running my recording studio with the 12 core 5,1, and it is working very nicely. But I fully expect an Apple Silicon Mac will replace it as the studio heart in the not-too-distant future.

How soon do you need that new machine?

[mikehalloran]

A recent thread on this exact topic:

https://www.motunation.com/forum/viewt ... =4&t=69240

[HCMarkus]

viewtopic.php?p=586593#p586593

[gaucho2]

I’ve been running DP 11 beautifully on my m1 Mac mini under Big Sur.
kontakt and spectrasonics are working perfectly.
It’s the best, smoothest, most stable system I have ever had with performer since 1986.
Only drawback: 16 gigs of RAM.

[HCMarkus]

I’ve been running DP 11 beautifully on my m1 Mac mini under Big Sur.
kontakt and spectrasonics are working perfectly.
It’s the best, smoothest, most stable system I have ever had with performer since 1986.
Only drawback: 16 gigs of RAM.

Cool! I've been holding off mostly due to the lack of Apple Silicon Native plugins, but also due to the challenges involved in implementing my Air in my studio. I'm loath to give up my current video monitor setup, and the M1 doesn't support more than a single external monitor.

Spectrasonics is M1 native, but Kontakt is not. Question: How are you running DP... under Rosetta2 or Native?

Thanks for the encouragement!

[wylie1]

I was hoping Apple was going to announce a Mac Mini M1max as well.

[mikehalloran]

The new M1 Pro and Mi Max support multiple monitors per the presentation on Monday. No reason the M1 shouldn’t but a TB4 hub might be required.

[gaucho2]

I’ve been running DP 11 beautifully on my m1 Mac mini under Big Sur.


Spectrasonics is M1 native, but Kontakt is not. Question: How are you running DP... under Rosetta2 or Native?

Thanks for the encouragement!

Running natively.

[Rick Cornish]

Another point of reference:

Having run a video production business for 23 years, my experience is that audio (with one exception* noted below), just doesn't use up all that much processing juice. I'm running a late-2013 Mac Pro 6-Core with 64gB RAM and I cannot make it choke in DP, running dozens of VIs and many more dozens of plugins in real time… even with a video window open. Even Avid MediaComposer doesn't start to dog for me until I'm running 8 layers of 1080p video.

I suppose I'll look at a new Mac Pro someday when a M1-whatever version is available. But I'm honestly in no hurry… my 8-year-old Mac Pro is meeting my current audio and video needs just fine.

*The exception: For someone running a large VSL template, I wouldn't dispute a need for additional power. But that's not me.

[Michael Canavan]

Another point of reference:

Having run a video production business for 23 years, my experience is that audio (with one exception* noted below), just doesn't use up all that much processing juice. I'm running a late-2013 Mac Pro 6-Core with 64gB RAM and I cannot make it choke in DP, running dozens of VIs and many more dozens of plugins in real time… even with a video window open. Even Avid MediaComposer doesn't start to dog for me until I'm running 8 layers of 1080p video.

I suppose I'll look at a new Mac Pro someday when a M1-whatever version is available. But I'm honestly in no hurry… my 8-year-old Mac Pro is meeting my current audio and video needs just fine.

*The exception: For someone running a large VSL template, I wouldn't dispute a need for additional power. But that's not me.

I've always managed to max out any machine I've owned.
I think it depends on what you're trying to do, but I tend to run some heavy CPU plug ins. I'm also on a 12 core 3.33ghz Mac Pro from 09, so there's some CPU throttling due to older chips in terms of some more advanced CPU heavy plug ins like Repro 5, Knifonium, Diva, Pigments, iZotope Ozone 9, etc. etc.

I'm debating going all in on a 32 or 64GB M1 Pro or Max Macbook Pro, it's hard to bite on a laptop that's well over 3 grand though, even if it is rating on Geekbench as powerful as a 12-16 core 2019 MAc Pro.

My 2012 Retina MBP now is not very useful for even a VEP master though, one plug in and a few native plug ins like Diva and it's spiking.

[dix]

I was hoping Apple was going to announce a Mac Mini M1max as well.

We're sort of stepping on the OP's question re MPs, (sry) but... Yeah, a lot of us were hoping for a M1Max-MacMini.

I'm in the position of needing a new Mac for my studio to replace my 5,1 cMP, and having to build a mobile rig - in that order chronologically. But I'm considering buying an M1Max MBP now for studio use, and then swapping in the rumored, eventual M1Max-Mini when it shows up. The (again rumored) specs of the MiniMax are identical to the new MBPs. Even the ports are reported to be similar if not identical. I'm thinking that swap would be painless compared to the massive undertaking of going from my 2009 cMP to a current Mac.

Can anyone shoot holes in this strategy? It seems a bit counterintuitive, and just weird, to use a laptop as a desktop, but this would get me into the modern era sooner...possibly several months sooner depending on what Apple has in store.

Thanks!

[HCMarkus]

I was hoping Apple was going to announce a Mac Mini M1max as well.

We're sort of stepping on the OP's question re MPs, (sry) but... Yeah, a lot of us were hoping for a M1Max-MacMini.

I'm in the position of needing a new Mac for my studio to replace my 5,1 cMP, and having to build a mobile rig - in that order chronologically. But I'm considering buying an M1Max MBP now for studio use, and then swapping in the rumored, eventual M1Max-Mini when it shows up. The (again rumored) specs of the MiniMax are identical to the new MBPs. Even the ports are reported to be similar if not identical. I'm thinking that swap would be painless compared to the massive undertaking of going from my 2009 cMP to a current Mac.

Can anyone shoot holes in this strategy? It seems a bit counterintuitive, and just weird, to use a laptop as a desktop, but this would get me into the modern era sooner...possibly several months sooner depending on what Apple has in store.

Thanks!

Seeing how you want to have a mobile rig, sounds like winner.

Interesting that RIck's 2013 is running well with DP11.02 when another user in Japan has noted issues like you have reported. Only diff looks like macOS11.
The reference thread for that issue is is viewtopic.php?f=1&t=69234

[dix]

We're sort of stepping on the OP's question re MPs, (sry) but... Yeah, a lot of us were hoping for a M1Max-MacMini.

I'm in the position of needing a new Mac for my studio to replace my 5,1 cMP, and having to build a mobile rig - in that order chronologically. But I'm considering buying an M1Max MBP now for studio use, and then swapping in the rumored, eventual M1Max-Mini when it shows up. The (again rumored) specs of the MiniMax are identical to the new MBPs. Even the ports are reported to be similar if not identical. I'm thinking that swap would be painless compared to the massive undertaking of going from my 2009 cMP to a current Mac.

Can anyone shoot holes in this strategy? It seems a bit counterintuitive, and just weird, to use a laptop as a desktop, but this would get me into the modern era sooner...possibly several months sooner depending on what Apple has in store.

Thanks!

Seeing how you want to have a mobile rig, sounds like winner.

Interesting that RIck's 2013 is running well with DP11.02 when another user in Japan has noted issues like you have reported. Only diff looks like macOS11.
The reference thread for that issue is is viewtopic.php?f=1&t=69234

Oh hey, that IS weird. Presumably Rick is running DP11 with video. @Rick, if you have time please check out the link HC referenced and let us know if you’re experiencing the movie-window-lag that users of older Macs are experiencing with DP11.

Since MOTU isn’t sure it’s resolvable, the DP11 movie-lag is a big reason I’d like to get settled with a new Mac sooner rather than later.