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Hello guys,
Any idea if there is a strings library better than that of East West?
I have a lot of products from EastWest. A lot of great sounds.
The strings staccato, marcato, pizzicato, espressive very good and realistic, but when it coms to legato in my ears it really sounds soooo synthesized. How come can it sound synthesized when they use sampled audio and not synth?

Do you have any other library in mind that can sound more realistic when it comes to strings legato playing? Or any tips of how to make your mediocre strings sound more realistic?
Anybody ever used the LASS or the Vienna samples?

Thank you!

Definitely check out the Vienna stuff. I use it every day and it's truly great!

TBH, 50% is the library itself, but the other 50% comes from your programming chops. Even the best library won't sound right with poor programming. Getting to know the library to its fullest always helps.

Thank you.
What do you mean programing? I am scared!

Gate 13 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 5:41 pm Thank you.
What do you mean programing? I am scared!

Nah! It's mainly getting to know the library really well and use all its functions. By programming I simply mean using articulations smartly, with MIDI CCs, Key switches, etc. That's how you bring them to life.

For instance, with VSL, you can vary the legato durations (to add variety), you can "program" (with CCs) little imperfections, play with the velocity layers for expressive swells, etc.

These days all top libraries are so amazing. You can basically get great results with any brand if you learn to use their tools to the fullest.

Gate 13 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 5:41 pm Thank you.
What do you mean programing? I am scared!

Programming is what some of us might call playing these days.

Of the string libraries I own (including Play, NI SS) I prefer the sound of CineStrings legatos (although no modifying them like in VSL). The legatos (and the library in general) on demos of Cinematic Strings sound really good too, but I don't own those...yet.

How to make emulations connect legato notes naturally is a big part of the issue. For a unique and inspiring experience try Audio Modeling's Strings while using a breath controller. NO keyswitching. The sounds are modeled, so not as realistic as sample in some ways, but the way notes connect when the VIs are in solo mode is magical!

HCMarkus wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 8:17 pm How to make emulations connect legato notes naturally is a big part of the issue. For a unique and inspiring experience try Audio Modeling's Strings while using a breath controller. NO keyswitching. The sounds are modeled, so not as realistic as sample in some ways, but the way notes connect when the VIs are in solo mode is magical!

v.3 Solo strings out now. Heard good things. $30 per solo string upgrade path.

I have both LASS and their recently released Modern Scoring Strings. The ability to control the legato transitions in MSS is pretty amazing. A lot of things are automated, but you have the ability to tweak quite a bit with continuous controllers. You should definitely check MSS out as well as their audio and video demos: https://audiobro.com/modern-scoring-strings/.

cuttime wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 8:52 pm

HCMarkus wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 8:17 pm How to make emulations connect legato notes naturally is a big part of the issue. For a unique and inspiring experience try Audio Modeling's Strings while using a breath controller. NO keyswitching. The sounds are modeled, so not as realistic as sample in some ways, but the way notes connect when the VIs are in solo mode is magical!

v.3 Solo strings out now. Heard good things. $30 per solo string upgrade path.

Yeah, got the email. What's the skinny on sonic improvements (other than UI)?

HCMarkus wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 10:06 am

cuttime wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 8:52 pm

HCMarkus wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 8:17 pm How to make emulations connect legato notes naturally is a big part of the issue. For a unique and inspiring experience try Audio Modeling's Strings while using a breath controller. NO keyswitching. The sounds are modeled, so not as realistic as sample in some ways, but the way notes connect when the VIs are in solo mode is magical!

v.3 Solo strings out now. Heard good things. $30 per solo string upgrade path.

Yeah, got the email. What's the skinny on sonic improvements (other than UI)?

YMMV. The differences are subtle but noticeable. It might take a couple of weeks to determine how the controls might impact the performances. My initial impressions are good. YouTube demos aren't really suitable to determine the subtleties. First off, the CPU performance is much better, and there is now a standalone version available.

FWIW the Synchron Player makes things a lot easier for those whose eyes glaze over when they're set to the task of "programming" presets and the like. I'm almost done converting my workflow to a pure 100% Synchron Player approach, but still have some Vienna Instruments hosted libraries in my workflow, for which I put in a tremendous amount of time creating presets that collect my most common articulations.

In Synchron Player, there's only one "preset" per se, as all articulations are available at all times, and you can manage the memory use by not selecting unused articulations for loading. The organization and arrangement of articulations is more laid out in front of you at all times, making it less intimidating and easier to learn, and the switching itself is consistent across instruments and libraries and already done for you. And yet, there's still slots to make some custom switches of your own.

You can also delve into VSL Synchron via the affordable Big Bang libraries, which may be a bit closer to your East/West experience in some ways. I rarely use my east/West stuff as I don't like the way articulations are handled and organized and as I find the libraries very uneven in quality, but I have a few cherry-picked instruments that do get a lot of play. I never invested in the Hollywood series though.

Some of the Big Bang stuff, and some of the articulations in Synchron Player, reduce the amount of work you have to do for initial renderings to sound relatively tolerable. But there's no getting around the eventual work to map your score properly. I usually copy each note track in full, then shift ahead by a number of ticks and start mapping the articulations, careful to wait until I'm confident of choices before erasing unneeded no-transition ones.

If you want to avoid articulation mapping altogether, you can try the VirHarmonic stuff if it'll run on your computer. I've never been successful with it running, even with fairly top-end computer specs, but they promise an update soon, which will include Viola (they currently have Violin and Cello). These are just solo strings though; not a full section or orchestra.

Along those same lines, the SWAM and Sample Modeling stuff (both now have solo strings but I think only Sample Modeling has section strings), can do a pretty good job of intuiting likely articulations from your MIDI note files. I sold my SWAM stuff as I didn't feel it sounded realistic enough timbre-wise, and haven't had time to delve into the Sample Modeling strings much yet, so can't make much comment other than to suggest looking at them.

Beyond that, Spitfire has some nicely recorded libraries from a few years back that aren't as wet as their earlier stuff, but it's hard to work with their libraries as all dynamics are via MIDI CC, and Note On Velocity rarely has much of an effect on any aspect of the sound. So I have to use Logic to convert Note On Velocity to a MIDI CC (as far as I know, this feature is still not available in DP), and use another sound during tracking or just go from a score directly. Unfortunately, there are issues, bugs, and inconsistencies across their line, but most can be worked around. I sometimes use their brass as well, and try their woodwinds now and then but still feel VSL is king of the hill for woodwinds (and even VSL-haters tend to agree).

Specific to legato strings though, if one doesn't care if the winds come from another source (certain libraries mix together better than others), VSL recently did a LOT of editing work on their strings (and other instruments) to further improve legato handling, both with and without velocity cross-fade, and now offering a looped and un-looped version (referred to as natural or organic, I forget which), for Synchron and SYNCHRON-ized (older libraries converted to Synchron Player). There's been controversy over Synchron Strings but I like them, and the Pro version gets a bit more love. Very warm sounding (to my ears; almost a bit closer to East/West than the usual Vienna sound.

So it isn't lost in the mix, as my previous post was fairly long, I just want to point out that SWAM can get good results, but not necessarily without effort -- just a different type of elbow grease than what one needs for adding articulation switches in fully sampled libraries. I just decided not to bother anymore, as any custom tweaks I did would have to be re-done with each update, and I have limited time, plus articulation mapping usually takes little effort to convert from one sample library or another. Also though, I felt the SWAM strings were not uniformly good. I'm REAL picky about my Cellos! I haven't heard the new V3 versions though. Like most modeled stuff, it gets better over time.

mhschmieder wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 10:09 pm So it isn't lost in the mix, as my previous post was fairly long, I just want to point out that SWAM can get good results, but not necessarily without effort -- just a different type of elbow grease than what one needs for adding articulation switches in fully sampled libraries. I just decided not to bother anymore, as any custom tweaks I did would have to be re-done with each update, and I have limited time, plus articulation mapping usually takes little effort to convert from one sample library or another. Also though, I felt the SWAM strings were not uniformly good. I'm REAL picky about my Cellos! I haven't heard the new V3 versions though. Like most modeled stuff, it gets better over time.

For me, elbow grease with the Audio Modeling SWAM stuff is nominal for most situations... dynamic adjustments are pretty much it. The key is using Breath Control when tracking. Its like playing a real instrument which, for me, is joyful. MHS, I know you use a breath controller. Have you tried it with the Audio Modeling stuff?

According to AM literature, the new version does not disable v2, so compatibility is less of an issue than it might otherwise be. I like the "Lower CPU hit". A big plus. I'm thinking about updating.