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Anyone have any tips for this?

I do a lot of tempo mapping with recordings sent to me as a basis for a song. I follow the same procedure every time, but get inconsistent results.

- put the first downbeat at 1/1/0,
- remove whatever tempo info their might be already in the sound file,
- detect tempo,
- copy the tempo to the conductor.

This always produces a tempo map with the expected small variations. But it's not always usable. Sometimes, the tempo map DP creates in a soundbite is perfect, and copying that to the Conductor track nails it. Other times, the tempo map bears no discernible relationship to the music.

The distinction is not related to apparent transients in the piece. Sometime, a piece with a clear and distinct beat and easily recognizable transients with regular gaps results in a nonsense map. Sometime a very smooth piece with few transients gives a perfect tempo map.

At the extremes, it all makes sense -- a track with nothing but a hat recorded in time with the piece always gives a good tempo map, and a simple wave from a synth pad never gives a tempo map. Everything in between may or may not, and I can't figure out why.

I always tap along. Works fine. I've had no luck using tempo maps.
This might help:
viewtopic.php?f=26&t=59838&p=515725&hilit=Pencilina#p505931

Yes, that’s one of the fall back methods I use. But it shouldn’t be necessary particularly with something with a very pronounced beat.

I find that it works perfectly when I'm working alone, but not with a client or musician present...

From what you describe, it sounds it's as unreliable and as bad as its cousin, the Find Tempo from MIDI command. It's never worked, and it gives non-sensical results.
I wonder if they share part of the same faulty algorithm.

At least Record Beats works fine as an alternative.

And I thought it was just me...

I wish I had a solid solution to offer, but I hear all of you out loud. Tempo Mapping isn't always as easy as it looks. In some cases, I've had to use a different app (to remain unnamed) to get the job done for certain types of projects, but once I import that map into DP I find that editing and fine tuning the map easier to deal with in DP.

bayswater wrote: -- a track with nothing but a hat recorded in time with the piece always gives a good tempo map, and a simple wave from a synth pad never gives a tempo map. Everything in between may or may not, and I can't figure out why.

Spot on. Some tracks are just easier to map than others. A lot of things I do eventually go to live musicians, so mapping helps me to get more accurate imports into a notation app. But it really depends on the kind of project at issue. Sometimes I'll get a track with a solid backbeat. Other times, I'm sent a piano-vocal that is entirely devoid of a steady tempo requiring, say, strings. There are times I can nail a decent map in 15-20 minutes and there are those nightmare days when it takes 5 hours or more to come up with something halfway workable.

But, I am encouraged to see that you folks are doing the same sorts of things that I've been doing, results aside. As far as I can tell, there's no one way to pull it off in all situations since so much hinges on the nature of the track itself.

If anyone has an epiphany, I'm all ears. It's doable, but man is it twiddly.

Oh, how I long for the days of the JL Cooper PPS-100... not.

Mix feelings after reading this post: 1) relief to know I am not the only one dealing with the inconsistencies of tempo map, beat detection from imported audio, 2) frustration that there is no solution at this point DP 11 .

Those posts were a long time ago. Although I don’t remember seeing much about this in the release notes over the past few years, it does work better now. Something to look at is 5 videos done by Magic Dave on MOTU TV on how to do this. I think it still works best by tapping out a beat on something like a hihat sample on a separate track. That takes the time of the song duration and can save a load of time in adjusting the tempo afterwards.

bayswater wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2024 12:03 am...I think it still works best by tapping out a beat on something like a hihat sample on a separate track. That takes the time of the song duration and can save a load of time in adjusting the tempo afterwards.

I agree. This is my go to method for mapping, as the efficacy of beat recognition is hit or miss.

Your friendly neighborhood Phil

Hi bayswater

I can help with this one

Have you seen Moises app? https://moises.ai

it does an incredible job of providing an audio tempo track to any material I've used it on

Using Moises' Track Separation mode Moises rips any stereo track to individual stems... many ripping options are available but no matter which you choose you will also get an audio metronome file of a basic click sound.... it follows the track to perfection!.. It's an AI app and is quite jaw dropping

I take that metronome track and Find its Beats... (Tip: pull the sensitivity back a touch as Find Beats finds a redundant beat just after the main click) ... Apply Find Beats

I will also snip the tracks to the first beat and Put a Sync point there... Copy Beats to all files from Metronome Beats...

Then Analyse Soundbite Tempo of the metronome file... and Copy Soundbite Tempo to the Conductor track. (also best to put the Meter into Conductor track first). ..

Once you've got it right you should Copy Sequence Tempo to all the tracks

Bingo!! Try that bayswater... i think it'll put a big smile on your face ( :

All the best

Maxxy

Thanks Maxxy. As mentioned, the original post was 4 years ago, and beat detection seems a bit better. But I’ll have a look at Moises. It has a number of other interesting functions.

Hi bayswater

Following your report about DP having an updated and improved Beats to Tempo, I just tried a couple of tracks in DP for the first time in a few years….…..Man…you are right! … it has been greatly improved ( :

Like others here I had experienced difficulties in the past with this and was very pleased to have found an algorithm that worked well straight off the bat…. Moises is a fab app … (its stem ripping from a basic stereo track is second to none in my experience. … so far! ( : …I made a DP project that compares rips of a number of apps…I can post a link if anyone if interested in that)

But DP has done a perfect job on these two test tracks so…. Happy days! Thanks so much for the heads up

It seems some are still have difficulties with this ……. DP seems to have added a vastly improved algorithm at some point… brilliant! Or Moises is also very capable with this

Thanks bayswater and best to all

Maxxy

Gonna have to try it, been a loooonng time here.