M4 Mini Announced and Available Now

[bayswater]

And as expected, like the i7 Mini, those running the OS it from an external drive are seeing performance the same as running from the internal drive. The only downside I've seen is slightly higher fan noise.

I thought the units won't allow this but that you can move your Home folder to an external and specify the new location in sys prefs.

You can install the OS on the external drive. You have to change security settings to allow the mac to start from an external drive. There is an Apple support article that says how to do it.

I’ve done it when needing to start with an old OS version or when the internal drive has failed, to erase it before disposal, but as Mike says, it can be very slow under most conditions.

Some point out that if the internal drive ever fails, the mac won’t start from any drive. I think that might be a silicon thing but it means the internal drive is somehow involved in startup even if it doesn’t contain the OS. And it means the Mac is useless if the internal drive fails, That’s not a good thing.

[monkey man]

Indeed Brother Stoivo.

What about the fact that certain apps have to remain on the internal (and therefore boot) drive?

I remember two youtubers saying that most of one's apps could be installed or moved to the external on which they recommended running the home folder, but that certain Apple ones require internal installation.

[mikehalloran]

It depends.

It depends on a few things but the reports I’ve seen for the new M4 and the tests on the i7 both found that using the right port with the right drive, the differences were negligible.

The differences in R/W speed between the i7 and a TB3 external are not nearly as great as those between an M4 Mini and a TB3/4 external, The max data speed from that external is 2800 no matter what it's connected to. If YouTubers cannot figure that out, then what good are their tests?

TB5/USB 4.2 externals for the M4 Mini Pro have been announced but none are shipping AFAIK. Those should run about twice the speed of TB3/4/USB4. The NVMe4 x4 blades they need have been out nearly a year.

Yes, most apps will not see a noticeable difference... BTD in DP certainly does and I already gave another real world example. Video rendering, likewise.

Even Finale can be noticeably slower when booted from an external. With the panic over its end, I have created a USB 4 external that will boot and run Finale on any Mac made from 2012–2025 as long as you have the right cables. No discernable difference on my 2012 MBPs, my wife's 2015 MBAir or 2020 iMac. Quite noticeable on her 2021 M1 MBAir and my Studio — as it should be given the differences between internal and external R/W speeds.

[bayswater]

Indeed Brother Stoivo.

What about the fact that certain apps have to remain on the internal (and therefore boot) drive?

I remember two youtubers saying that most of one's apps could be installed or moved to the external on which they recommended running the home folder, but that certain Apple ones require internal installation.

In that configuration the external drive IS the boot drive, so the apps are on the right drive in that case.

[mikehalloran]

Indeed Brother Stoivo.

What about the fact that certain apps have to remain on the internal (and therefore boot) drive?

I remember two youtubers saying that most of one's apps could be installed or moved to the external on which they recommended running the home folder, but that certain Apple ones require internal installation.

In that configuration the external drive IS the boot drive, so the apps are on the right drive in that case.

I'll say it again. No.

On Apple Silicon Macs, there are apps that will not work if installed on an external boot drive. Period. Apple prevents certain .kxt files from loading. No workaround. This includes many 3rd party apps like the MOTU Audio driver I've mentioned before (MIDI driver is fine).

Last year, someone complained about that and pointed to an Apple Developer site listing a whole slew of incompatible apps with page upon page of developer complaints. The gist of his argument was that MOTU should find a workaround. I pointed out that there was nothing MOTU on the list but it did explain the issue. I then tested his issue and discovered he was right—doesn't work. MOTU would have to rewrite the drivers to eliminate those .kxt files.

Those who think that the solution is to buy a 256GB M4 Mac and run everything from a large, inexpensive external need to test everything within that 14 day return window. Although some Apple apps including Pages (which can be run entirely in iCloud) will run from an external boot drive, Logic, iMovie and Final Cut Pro are among the many that will not. Most AV apps cannot including Adobe Premiere Pro and Premiere Elements.

You can store VIs on externals, of course, and archive your work files—nothing's changed there.

[HCMarkus]

You can store VIs on externals, of course, and archive your work files—nothing's changed there.

The Answer.

Everything but macOS and Apps resides on external drives. Or you pays your money.

[bayswater]

I’m referring to this article.
https://support.apple.com/en-us/111336

[mikehalloran]

I’m referring to this article.
https://support.apple.com/en-us/111336

Yes and? This contradicts nothing I wrote.

I keep posting that I have multiple startup drives. Many apps will not run from those drives including all the ones that I have listed.

…
The Answer.

Everything but macOS and Apps resides on external drives. Or you pays your money.

Sorta' kinda'... some work files, especially AV need to be on the System drive but you can use alias and simlinks to the external for most others—or even the cloud if you have the bandwidth (which I don't). AppleMusic (was iTunes) is stored in the Music folder on your System drive but you can install a subfolder that links to your content on the external.

BTW, work files from Apple apps can only be stored in iCloud unless the new EU lawsuit prevails—this includes iTunes and Photos—$9.99 month for 2TB storage. I also pay about that much for 2TB of Dropbox.

BTD is a lot slower. Video/AV rendering is a lot slower as is Photoshop. When TB5/USB 4.2 externals become available, shouldn't be such a performance hit on the M4 Mini Pro.

I do not recommend less than a 1TB System drive for anyone creating content; 2TB if doing AV, even if just making YouTube videos.

[bayswater]

More on the use of external drives.

https://www.macrumors.com/how-to/instal ... age-macos/

[mikehalloran]

More on the use of external drives.

https://www.macrumors.com/how-to/instal ... age-macos/

So what?

No one says you can't — unless you want to run a large number of apps from those externals including Logic, MOTU Audio drivers and the rest that I have listed already (there are many more). That cannot be done. You can install but they will not run and none of the links you've posted suggest that a workaround exists.



Oh, you cannot use a USB stick to install the macOS on anything except the System drive. Say you're running Sequoia and want to install Sonoma onto your external. Apple won't let you and a Sonoma USB stick will give you an error. But... there is a workaround:

Create an APFS Volume on your System Drive. Now you can boot from the USB stick and install the OS onto that Volume (because it's part of your System Drive). When done. copy the Installer onto that new Volume. Now you can boot from it and install onto any external. It took me a lot of wasted hours to figure this one out.

[mikehalloran]

There is a new 27" 5K monitor from ASUS for $799.

https://www.amazon.com/ASUS-Display-Pro ... ref=sr_1_1

Reviews say that it's not as bright as the Apple Studio Display (I have brightness turned down on mine) and the stand feels flimsy—no idea if it converts to VESA as quickly as other 3rd party displays (but not Apple!). In addition, there's no built-in web cam but there are plenty of those on the market. Although I like Apple's CenterStage, I'd be the last person to say that one needs to spend $600—$1,000 more to get that one feature.

In addition, it boasts DisplayPort over USB-C but also HDMI. If DisplayPort works as poorly on the Mini as it does the Studio (DP monitors won't sleep), stick to HDMI.

If someone has a major black friday sale, I might pick up a pair. Nothing wrong with my LG 4Ks but my eyes are old enough that I can't see the 4Ks as clearly. This turning 70 business sucks!

[bayswater]

More on the use of external drives.

https://www.macrumors.com/how-to/instal ... age-macos/

So what?

No one says you can't — unless you want to run a large number of apps from those externals including Logic, MOTU Audio drivers and the rest that I have listed already (there are many more). That cannot be done. You can install but they will not run and none of the links you've posted suggest that a workaround exists.

The article specifically states that you can have the latest OS version install Logic and run it from the external drive, and that it is specifically supported. I'm not sure what you mean by "That cannot be done", and how that fits with "No one says you can't".

All I'm saying is that there is an option to get the new Mini with a basic drive, and install a lot of stuff that you might normally put on an internal drive on an external drive. Of course there are conditions and limitations but there are options. People have tried them, and found them working,

In my case, I have all the usual stuff on a basic internal drive, with DP, Logic, MixBus, DSP-Q, a load of the usual VIs, a several design and CAD apps, and have yet to hit more than 50% of the internal drive. I've yet to see a reason why I'd need more than the same on a new Mini, particularly with Apple support to run a lot of stuff from an external drive.

Yes, some will need more, but that doesn't mean we all do. The options are there and people can decide what meets their needs.

[mhschmieder]

There is a new 27" 5K monitor from ASUS for $799.

https://www.amazon.com/ASUS-Display-Pro ... ref=sr_1_1

That's the one I mentioned earlier. I have since cooled on it a bit, as B&H reviews say it has a grainy look due to a super thick matte layer. I used to prefer matte but have gotten used to glossy. At any rate, the main criticisms are that even the base and supporting arm is plastic, and the optics are a bit fuzzy due to the thick matte, but color accuracy is best available.

UPDATE: There are two more user reviews posted today and both are extremely positive with no mention of blur or other ill effects of the thick matte layer. We probably need to keep in mind that the criticisms from a previous reviewer at B&H and a similar one at another e-seller site are both from people who do graphic design for a living.

[mhschmieder]

https://www.amazon.com/Perixx-PERIBOARD ... r=8-4&th=1

Does anyone know if the specs are sufficient for booting in Recovery Mode, and other stuff I was unable to do on my Bluetooth Logitech MX Keys S recently when I ended up as a result having to pay Geek Squad at Best Buy to wipe my iMac?

I want to make sure this never happens again, and as mentioned way earlier, I'd like to combine that solution with finally having a European Spanish keyboard (which I prefer to the Latin American Spanish layout), but I want scissor keys vs. membrane, so I keep looking at alternatives to the Magic Keyboard, which may not be available in Spanish anymore anyway due to the cancellation of the previous models to meet the new legal requirement for USB-C.

I am still not entirely sure why I couldn't use this keyboard for basic diagnostic mode stuff. Although technically a multi-OS keyboard (I skipped their Mac-specific version as it didn't have scissor keys), it isn't sending the specific codes that a Mac needs at boot time. Do only Apple-manufactured keyboards do so, or does it simply have to have Mac-specific layout so that there is no mapping layer of keycodes that perhaps is happening currently in the Logitech driver post-boot time?

[James Steele]

There is a new 27" 5K monitor from ASUS for $799.

https://www.amazon.com/ASUS-Display-Pro ... ref=sr_1_1

That's the one I mentioned earlier. I have since cooled on it a bit, as B&H reviews say it has a grainy look due to a super thick matte layer. I used to prefer matte but have gotten used to glossy. At any rate, the main criticisms are that even the base and supporting arm is plastic, and the optics are a bit fuzzy due to the thick matte, but color accuracy is best available.

UPDATE: There are two more user reviews posted today and both are extremely positive with no mention of blur or other ill effects of the thick matte layer. We probably need to keep in mind that the criticisms from a previous reviewer at B&H and a similar one at another e-seller site are both from people who do graphic design for a living.

What I don't understand is how I could use a monitor like this without getting Lasik done... or some computer glasses. I have a hard enough time with my 43" 4K Samsung TV about 2 feet away or so. But 5K on a 27" diagonal screen. Seems like there's no way I could use it at native resolution with no zoom.