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The forum for petitions, theoretical discussion, gripes, or other matters outside deemed outside the scope of helping users make optimal use of MOTU hardware and software. Posts in other forums may be moved here at the moderators discretion. No politics or religion!!
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twistedtom
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Post by twistedtom »

billf wrote:
twistedtom wrote:no one wants to go camping with you.
Tom, you win the award for the best non sequitur ever.

BTW, if you were gay, no big deal. If you're not gay, no big deal either. 8)

True, and may I congratulate you on the first real flame, I really thought there would be more. Maybe being gay should not be an issue but it is, look at the politics going on right now.
Bill is your time and space in flux because you are in and out of strong gravities or is it because your velocity keeps changing?
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billf
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Post by billf »

twistedtom wrote:
billf wrote:
twistedtom wrote:no one wants to go camping with you.
Tom, you win the award for the best non sequitur ever.

BTW, if you were gay, no big deal. If you're not gay, no big deal either. 8)

True, and may I congratulate you on the first real flame, I really thought there would be more. Maybe being gay should not be an issue but it is, look at the politics going on right now.
Bill is your time and space in flux because you are in and out of strong gravities or is it because your velocity keeps changing?
Tom, I wasn't flaming you, sorry if it came off that way. All I am trying to say is that, dude, don't worry about it one way or the other. We're friends here.

I understand your point about politics, but I'd venture to say that most of us here care more about music instead of politics, and certainly don't seek to exclude or alienate anyone. The only people I've seen that aren't welcome here are DP pirates. Otherwise this is a civil community.

All that matters is that you have a cool guitar, and I'm wondering where I can get one of those. 8)

Peace.
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James Steele
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Post by James Steele »

yofo wrote:
arth wrote:
James Steele wrote:Find me a guitarist who hasn't stolen licks from Gilmour and I'll show you a guitarist who SHOULD. Don't get me started! :-)
Al Di Meola? :-P

(Just playing devil's advocate here)
Actually , I've heard a lot of his stuff and it lacks soul. He Would benefit from listening to David Gilmour !
You know... I have to agree with you. I haven't heard any of his new stuff if he is doing some, but I remember listening to Race With the Devil on a Spanish Highway and thinking "Gee that's fast!" but that was pretty much the sum total of it. Lots of minor scale runs up and down... but nothing approaching the gut-wrenching soulfulness that Gilmour is famous for. Gilmour is the perfect note at the perfect time... he can wring such emotion from just a few notes. I try to tell young kids to listen to Gilmour... also there's an Alex Lifeson solo in the middle of La Villa Strangiato that is one of those most beautifully constructed ever, over the rather trite chord progression of Am, F, Am, F... etc. That's one of the solos I learned as a kid that really made an impression on me.
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chrispick
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Post by chrispick »

James Steele wrote: also there's an Alex Lifeson solo in the middle of La Villa Strangiato that is one of those most beautifully constructed ever, over the rather trite chord progression of Am, F, Am, F... etc. That's one of the solos I learned as a kid that really made an impression on me.
I alwasy though Lifeson was the best part of Rush. He had the most feel and invention to his playing. "Limelight" solo's awesome (the rest of the tune is pretty heavy-handed, to say the least, especially the lyrics).

Hey, I was a twelve-year-old white boy once. Cut me some slack.

Anyway, I know this is blasphemy to the Lee and Peart supporters, but I stand by it. I put Peart in the DiMeola category of technique over groove. Lee's playing got better once he traded his Rick for a Jazz and settled for more discretion.

I know. Who cares?

Hey, while I'm at it, some other guitarist solo work from the arena days I really dig who don't get the nod they deserve sometimes:
  • Elliot Easton. "Best Friend's Girl." "Shake It Up." Case closed.

    Neil Schon. There was plenty that was "ugh" to Journey, but Schon's solos were really expressive. I'm pretty "eh" on the song "Lights," but I love the guitar solo.

    Dave Gilmour. It's been said.

    Andy Summers. Okay, not really solo heavy stuff, but great minimalist vibe and lush textures.

    Adrian Belew. Okay, not arena rock, but from the same time period, give or take. Showy, certainly. Groovy, you bet.
Actually, all of these guys are still doing work, so I don't know why I refer to then in past tense.

I'd apologize for hijacking this thread, but come on! This thread?
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Post by James Steele »

Textures... yeah... that's totally what comes to mind when I think Andy Summers. Very inventive and interesting rhythm. The riff from Message in a Bottle is a cool example of his approach and "geometry" if you know what I mean.

Also... don't forget another in the same sort of class as Andy and that's The Edge. He developed an approach using delay and muted strumming, etc. that gave his band a immediately and identifiable sound. Sorry... more hijacking... LOL
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Post by arth »

I have to agree that Al Di Meola isn't what he was -- much like Yngwie Malmsteen, the latest offerings seem to have more technique than feeling.

One guitar player I can't make my mind up over is Mike Oldfield. Sure, he's technically competent, and a fun composer too, but half the time there's no soul there at all -- just repetitive string masturbation, if you'll excuse my French.

Then, at a live concert, the audience quiets down, and he goes off doing Something Else. You all listen to pure magic, and after a while you pick your jaw up, and pull out the handkerchief, cause, dammit, there's a tear running down your cheek... Meanwhile Mike Oldfield appears to be on a different planet than his band -- playing something there's no sheets for, staring at something only he can see, and not even offering the audience a smile nor a glance. And he doesn't even appear to be concentrating -- just plucking strings like another man would breathe. He's a weird, introvert and cold guy, but sometimes, just sometimes, it's true magic.
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Post by yofo »

When I was 15 in 1975 I bought Wish You Were Here and graduated from KISS to Floyd. The record didn't leave my turntable for about a year ( until I discovered Jeff Beck's Blow By Blow ) Gilmour and Beck play with soul. But of the "shredders" like Yngwie , I love Joe Satriani . He has sick skills AND tone and feeling. He has soul.
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mikebeckmotu
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Post by mikebeckmotu »

I never get tired of listening to Django Reinhardt.
Add electricity, and I get a list similar to chrispick's. But add Jeff Beck and Marc Ribot.
The thread hijacking continues...
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chrispick
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Post by chrispick »

mikebeckmotu wrote:I never get tired of listening to Django Reinhardt.
Well, yeah. That guy was the best.
Add electricity, and I get a list similar to chrispick's. But add Jeff Beck and Marc Ribot. The thread hijacking continues...
I really like Marc Ribot too. With both Waits and Costello.

I like some of Jeff Beck's stuff. But Beck, Satriari, Malmsteen -- those guys, they have guitar hero status. Most of my favorite players haven't garnered that attention, although many are well-respected.

Another guitarist I really like that doesn't get a lot of git-box props: Dave Gregory from XTC. Probably because they're not as well known. Listen to the guitar work on "Oranges and Lemons." That's a pop guitar clinic.

And James -- Yeah, The Edge plays some great complementary parts, I think. I love what he does in "One" -- great vibe.
Last edited by chrispick on Wed Jun 21, 2006 8:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
gavspen
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Post by gavspen »

mikebeckmotu wrote:I never get tired of listening to Django Reinhardt.
Ok, you said the magic words :wink:

To me, the dichotomy frequently is that the rock and rollers (the Claptons, Becks, Gilmores etc.,) do indeed play with a ton of gut wrenching soul but lets face it, the technique isnt exactly mindblowing. (Heck, I can play the solo from "Crossroads" - I didnt say I could improvise it, just play it :wink:)

And then we've got the Tal Farlows, Jim Halls and Barney Kessels of the world, whose technique is undeniable, whose intellectual skill is deep indeed, but somehow they dont always, well, move you. You marvel at what they can do, but you dont quite thrill to it.

And then we've got the incomparable Django Reinhardt, a perfect combination of both, to me anyway. Mind blowing technique coupled with astonishing melodic invention and soulfulness. It's pretty, it's happy, it makes you laugh, it makes you cry, and it's damn difficult to do with just two fingers! (Actually I can kind of do some of the melodic/diatonic stuff with just the two fingers, it's interesting to mess around with - not quite up to speed of course - but I dont understand how the arpeggios are possible.)

Anyway, it wouldnt matter if he had no fingers, or a hundred fingers, if the playing wasnt what it was. I'm oversimplifying of course, in that Joe Pass, Wes Montgomery, they all can tug the heart strings mightily from time to time, just as Clapton can rip off a blinding run, but Django, to my ears just never put a foot (or a finger) wrong.

It's just my opinion so keep the mud slinging to a minimum, ok?...:wink:

Gavin
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mothra
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Post by mothra »

Hey now Radiohead's OK Computer doesnt count..
It came out 6 years ago now, when this whole internet music boom was literally just beginning.. Anyone remember when mp3.com was actually useful and cool??

You can sure as hell bet Radiohead got a rather nice big budget to do that album along with Kid A, Amnesiac, and Hail To The Thief..
Especially after the profits theyve pulled in with it hehe.
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Post by mikebeckmotu »

I agree about Dave Gregory, too. In fact, XTC in general. I still remember hearing The Ballad of Peter Pumpkinhead on a car radio and despite the miscellaneous noise from the raod, noticing how fantastic the guitar sounded - simple strumming, but played, recorded and mixed *right*.

Django is in his own league. Soul is the only word I can think of to define it. Gavin pretty much said it - the fact that he only really had two good fretting fingers is only *more* astonishing. If he had three hands, it would still be amazing. And that only covers technique - his playing seems to come direct from his nervous system.
I have picked up a few Bireli Lagrene recordings, and some of them approach Django. His more recent Gypsy Project releases are very nice. The Rosenberg Trio has done some very good Django-style things, too.

To come around to James' comments, though, as a teenager I listened to Gilmour and was impressed by his leads. Masterful understatement, smooth and accurate string bends, and nicely-used tone effects. I probably got my first Strat because of Gilmour, early Mark Knopfler and a few other influences. I wanted that tone...
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Post by mothra »

Its sure been overplayed to death..

But Comfortably Numb is still one of the best solos ever..

No shredder Ive ever heard can come close to that.

Gilmour said more with one or two sweet singing notes than people like Steve Vai or Yngwie Malmsteem can ever imagine to say with their multitudes of modes and scales and sweep picking and scalloped fretboards heh.

Marc Ribot.. Glad to see him mentioned.. Tom Waits' band just flat out rules!!
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James Steele
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Post by James Steele »

mothra wrote:But Comfortably Numb is still one of the best solos ever..
True enough. I like the one in "Time" as well.
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Post by billf »

mothra wrote:But Comfortably Numb is still one of the best solos ever..
I don't know what it is about that song, but it still gives me chills when I hear it. There's nothing else quite like it.
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