Greetings-
We are getting ready to setup a digital recording system for our band and I have been researching hardware and software. I have a Dell 1.8GHZ machine with a gig of memory and an 80 gig 7500RPM HD running Win2K that I can dedicate to the project.
We are familiar with traditional analogue recording gear but have not used digital equipment. I am a network admin so I don't think understanding the computer is going to be a probem.
My big question: Are the MOTU PCI 2808 and MOTU 24/io a good solution?
We would prefer to have the option to record "live". There are synthesizers involved as well as the guitars,vocals and drums.
I have a budget of around $3,000.00 for this project.
Also- any thoughts on Sonar 5?
Thanks
Is MOTU a good solution?
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Discussion related to installation, configuration and use of MOTU hardware such as MIDI interfaces, audio interfaces, etc. with Windows
Discussion related to installation, configuration and use of MOTU hardware such as MIDI interfaces, audio interfaces, etc. with Windows
Eviltwin,
For the time being, the PCI interfaces and supporting software would seem to be a safer bet for trouble-free operation, or maybe even track count (judging by here and the Nuendo forum).
I've also heard that it's not easy to find things with as much i/o in these price ranges, but a few other users have mentioned that it was their main reason for the purchase, and that although they had been doing fine, they didn't sound as if they would have taken that same route if the budget was higher. From hanging in here a lot lately, as well as in other forums, I have grown more than dissatisfied with some areas of their support and priorities, and I suspect I'm not the only one.
The number of hardware problems I see mentioned in here is also a bit discouraging, as far as your ability to depend on the units is concerned, or how comfortable you might be with the possibility of future repairs or downtime. By "live", I'm guessing you just mean all-at-once, and not actual remote live recordings of shows,etc. (I definitely wouldn't trust it under those conditions, or in critical live situations). I have never participated in ANY hardware forums with this frequency of part failure postings. Myself and numerous others seem to have been lucky with our purchases, but I don't see much point in arguing about the distinct indications here that either: 1) They're known to use a lower grade of components. 2) The circuit or hardware designs are less than optimal for protecting the different parts from these failures, or 3) Their quality control is just poor, and with the massive quantities of units being produced, maybe more "flawed" ones are managing to slip out. Either way, I guess the end result is the same for us.
I have read good things, from knowledgeable posters, about some of the higher-res AD/DA MOTU interfaces, but depending on your applications, a "safer" route may be a well respected multi-ADAT card, and two or three separate 3rd party converter boxes to use with it. It also might be a bit more flexible, and you can always upgrade AD/DA boxes, or use them for other stuff. There's a wide range of mic pre. boxes now with ADAT outs, or you could just go with line level converters from what you're running. I personally have been OK with the cheapo Behringer ADA-8000 for all my drum channels, and that's 8 channel mic/line and digital to analog for under $200. For project studio level recording, you could get several of them and a good digital card for under a grand.
Good luck with it regardless!
George
For the time being, the PCI interfaces and supporting software would seem to be a safer bet for trouble-free operation, or maybe even track count (judging by here and the Nuendo forum).
I've also heard that it's not easy to find things with as much i/o in these price ranges, but a few other users have mentioned that it was their main reason for the purchase, and that although they had been doing fine, they didn't sound as if they would have taken that same route if the budget was higher. From hanging in here a lot lately, as well as in other forums, I have grown more than dissatisfied with some areas of their support and priorities, and I suspect I'm not the only one.
The number of hardware problems I see mentioned in here is also a bit discouraging, as far as your ability to depend on the units is concerned, or how comfortable you might be with the possibility of future repairs or downtime. By "live", I'm guessing you just mean all-at-once, and not actual remote live recordings of shows,etc. (I definitely wouldn't trust it under those conditions, or in critical live situations). I have never participated in ANY hardware forums with this frequency of part failure postings. Myself and numerous others seem to have been lucky with our purchases, but I don't see much point in arguing about the distinct indications here that either: 1) They're known to use a lower grade of components. 2) The circuit or hardware designs are less than optimal for protecting the different parts from these failures, or 3) Their quality control is just poor, and with the massive quantities of units being produced, maybe more "flawed" ones are managing to slip out. Either way, I guess the end result is the same for us.
I have read good things, from knowledgeable posters, about some of the higher-res AD/DA MOTU interfaces, but depending on your applications, a "safer" route may be a well respected multi-ADAT card, and two or three separate 3rd party converter boxes to use with it. It also might be a bit more flexible, and you can always upgrade AD/DA boxes, or use them for other stuff. There's a wide range of mic pre. boxes now with ADAT outs, or you could just go with line level converters from what you're running. I personally have been OK with the cheapo Behringer ADA-8000 for all my drum channels, and that's 8 channel mic/line and digital to analog for under $200. For project studio level recording, you could get several of them and a good digital card for under a grand.
Good luck with it regardless!
George
-
enigmatunes
- Posts: 57
- Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2006 11:15 am
- Primary DAW OS: Unspecified
Eviltwin, I have mixed feelings about Jidis's general overview; but in all I suppose there is probably truth to this statement:
- The MOTU PCI solution is swell when it is working as intended -
How often do the PCI-based MOTU interfaces not work as intended? That would be tough to report, but fwiw a fair amount of the issues I've seen reported on the MOTU PCI stuff seem to stem from the system and not the product (ie, incompatibility of the old PCI-324 with new PCs; overtaxing of the PCI bus due to other PCI cards; IRQ conflicts or other confounded Windows frustrations).
Jidis does point out that he and "numerous others seem to have been lucky with our purchases". I assume that means that he and others have successfully used a MOTU PCI system without major issues. And this is the experience that I have had with these systems: yes I've read about the problems of others but I have never personally witnessed them despite being around the products and seeing them work regularly.
- The MOTU PCI solution is swell when it is working as intended -
How often do the PCI-based MOTU interfaces not work as intended? That would be tough to report, but fwiw a fair amount of the issues I've seen reported on the MOTU PCI stuff seem to stem from the system and not the product (ie, incompatibility of the old PCI-324 with new PCs; overtaxing of the PCI bus due to other PCI cards; IRQ conflicts or other confounded Windows frustrations).
Jidis does point out that he and "numerous others seem to have been lucky with our purchases". I assume that means that he and others have successfully used a MOTU PCI system without major issues. And this is the experience that I have had with these systems: yes I've read about the problems of others but I have never personally witnessed them despite being around the products and seeing them work regularly.
"Where do these stairs go?" ...
"They go up."
"They go up."
Thanks Guys--
As far as I have been able to tell from the various places I checked out the problems encountered usually are windows issues associated with the bloatware that is endemic with windows. I have seen a couple of posts regarding PC configuration techniques that help in solving these problems by creating a "stable" windows environment (ha ha)
I won't be running out and purchashing anything for abit.
Again-Thanks for the Info
Eviltwin
As far as I have been able to tell from the various places I checked out the problems encountered usually are windows issues associated with the bloatware that is endemic with windows. I have seen a couple of posts regarding PC configuration techniques that help in solving these problems by creating a "stable" windows environment (ha ha)
I won't be running out and purchashing anything for abit.
Again-Thanks for the Info
Eviltwin
That's why I mentioned them specifically. From reading many of the Traveller/828 posts online, I think you're safer with their PCI, both hardware-wise, as well as with the connection type vs. MOTU's drivers. I'm guessing that with Eviltwin rounding up money for a "current" purchase, he's probably talking about a 424 rig, so there should be little chance of a hardware incompatibility, especially with the G5 version. I guess none of us can say how their Windows software is going to evolve, with the new breeds of processors and 64bit junk happening, but for now, the PCI/driver combo seems to be doing well, and I really don't see the need for a current "cutting edge" host and any of it's conflict potential.enigmatunes wrote:How often do the PCI-based MOTU interfaces not work as intended?
FWIW- From recent research, even the 324, when paired with the right boards, can do just fine under Windows. It just didn't seem to have had adequate driver fixes or testing done to keep it on par with the more PC oriented cards, or provide a proper range of motherboard options.
I agree with Enigmatunes about the software/OS components being responsible for the MOTU problems, but the true source of it really should not be mistaken for a "Windows" issue, or anything inherent to that OS. It appears that they've always done OK with their Mac drivers, and there's a whole world of properly supported Windows hardware to prove that it's obviously not impossible.
As for the hardware longevity or reliability issue, that does unfortunately remain a problem, and was one of the reasons I recommended a solid external lightpipe configuration with a simple PCI card. I've got two AD/DA units here, and have always kept my 2408mk3 in the control room, using only a couple analog outs for the mains, as well as some control room S/PDIF and an ADAT effects unit send. I've got a couple ADAT lines running to the pre's and converters in the other room, so at least I feel more confident that if a failure ever occurred, I could grab a cheap PCI ADAT card and be right back up.
It's easy to get excited about getting a powerful, shiny new interface(s) with a nice looking front panel and all that i/o, and the prices definitely are attractive. Just be aware of the situation and some of these issues, and don't let your excitement overcome your patience or proper decision making, even if it could lead to an "uglier" looking interface
. The most professional, beautiful looking rack panel in the world, with a rear end full of jacks, won't do you a bit of good if it breaks next year, or the driver support soon falls off as all the computer technology advances.
BTW- Whatever you decide, your choice to register and come in here first is quite admirable. Had I done that a while back, I might not be here now. I won't branch into another conspiracy theory about MOTU's advertising budget, or their relationship with the music mags, but that may not be the best avenue for information.
Take Care All,
George
Hi George--
Yes shiny new gear is nice but the bottom line with me is what does it sound like and does it work? My guitar rig is a cobbled up mixture of tube amp/solid state digital effects/antique analogue effects but it's the best guitar sound I have ever had. She's ugly but she works for me. I like to find out what is out there--What people are actually using and what is reliable. I tend to avoid "Cutting Edge" anything. Especially with computers--Which is what we are talking about.
The MOTU just looked to good to be true. Plug everything into one integrated box and fly-Oh let's not forget the learning curve on the recording end--that's a whole other story
I will follow up on the other approaches that have been laid out.
Thanks again
Kevin
Yes shiny new gear is nice but the bottom line with me is what does it sound like and does it work? My guitar rig is a cobbled up mixture of tube amp/solid state digital effects/antique analogue effects but it's the best guitar sound I have ever had. She's ugly but she works for me. I like to find out what is out there--What people are actually using and what is reliable. I tend to avoid "Cutting Edge" anything. Especially with computers--Which is what we are talking about.
The MOTU just looked to good to be true. Plug everything into one integrated box and fly-Oh let's not forget the learning curve on the recording end--that's a whole other story
I will follow up on the other approaches that have been laid out.
Thanks again
Kevin
Kevin,
Hey again. I'm talking to someone now about MIDI interface options and he pointed me to the ESI/EgoSys boxes. I hear the name a bunch, but can't remember if it was good or bad.
Turns out, they also have a PCI card/audio box which has 4 ADAT ports (each way), S/PDIF, wordclock, headphone, and 2x2 analog with phantom powered mic ins or line level, plus a built-in MIDI interface. It does ASIO2,GSIF,WDM and all, and has a bunch of bundled VST plugs. Looks like they've also got different i/o rack interface upgrades for it as well.
Looks a little over 600 bucks, which would only be a bit over 8 with one of those ADA8000's. Wouldn't be a bad box for someone just needing control room outs, if they were doing mostly external i/o with ADAT boxes,etc.
http://www.digitalproaudio.com/esi-maxio-032.html
Again, can't speak for it's rep., it's just the first time I've noticed it, and thought it might be worth looking at.
Take Care,
George
Hey again. I'm talking to someone now about MIDI interface options and he pointed me to the ESI/EgoSys boxes. I hear the name a bunch, but can't remember if it was good or bad.
Turns out, they also have a PCI card/audio box which has 4 ADAT ports (each way), S/PDIF, wordclock, headphone, and 2x2 analog with phantom powered mic ins or line level, plus a built-in MIDI interface. It does ASIO2,GSIF,WDM and all, and has a bunch of bundled VST plugs. Looks like they've also got different i/o rack interface upgrades for it as well.
Looks a little over 600 bucks, which would only be a bit over 8 with one of those ADA8000's. Wouldn't be a bad box for someone just needing control room outs, if they were doing mostly external i/o with ADAT boxes,etc.
http://www.digitalproaudio.com/esi-maxio-032.html
Again, can't speak for it's rep., it's just the first time I've noticed it, and thought it might be worth looking at.
Take Care,
George