What is the actual Thunderbolt version in MOTUs 828es?

[Anders Peev]

Hi friends!

I just ordered a MOTU 828es that was on a campaign this week in a Swedish online store. I fell in love with all the features that MOTU have baked into their interfaces! Internal DSP effects and the AVB and so on.

But now I'm getting cold feet about it. It's says on motu.com that it is compatible with Thunderbolt 2 and 3. But in the tech specs it says that it is TB1, but compatible with TB2 and 3. What does this mean? I get it that I will need an older TB2 cable from Apple that looks like a mini display cable and and not the USB-C type. But will the 828es actually give me 40Gbit/s or will it be 20Gbit/s? Or even down to 10, if it is acually only TB1?

I would like to buy an interface that is future proof and not something that is just a stone throw from my old RME FF400 (FW 400) that I bought 2008. Should I send It back and wait for MOTU to come up with a TB3 version of the same interface?

Hope for help!
Anders Peev, Sweden

[ronjams]

You’re going to be waiting for a long time. The goal should be to make music. I assume the interface is working properly with your setup if not explain what the problem is. No interface is future proof the problem is with the computer manufacturers like Apple who changes the standard within a blink of an eye And makes the industry change right along with it which is much slower so we all have to just deal with it.

[mikehalloran]

A MDP cable will not work. You need a TB 1 or 2 cable from the unit plugged into an Apple TB2/TB3 adapter plugged into a TB3/4 port depending on the Mac.

Audio does not need 10/20/40GPS. Fast USB 2 has all the speed and bandwidth an interface needs. Yes, it advertises Round-trip latency (RTL) performance as low as 1.6 ms at 96kHz over Thunderbolt™ with high-performance DAW hosts. while USB 2 which deliver class-leading, ultra-low 2.5 ms Round Trip Latency (at 96 kHz with a 32 sample buffer). That’s moving your ears 30cm closer or further from your studio monitors. Those numbers are for marketing departments only. They’re meaningless in the real world.

At sea level, audio travels approximately one foot (30 cm) per millisecond. A latency of ten milliseconds is about the same as being ten feet (three meters) from an audio source.

[Anders Peev]

A MDP cable will not work. You need a TB 1 or 2 cable from the unit plugged into an Apple TB2/TB3 adapter plugged into a TB3/4 port depending on the Mac.

At sea level, audio travels approximately one foot (30 cm) per millisecond. A latency of ten milliseconds is about the same as being ten feet (three meters) from an audio source.

Thank you Mike for taking the time to break this down to me!! This was very valuble for to me to read! I feel very confident in keeping the 828es when it arrives at my doorstep some time in the upcoming week!

Have a great sunday!
Anders

[Phil O]

I have the 8pre-es. I think it's the 828es's cousin. I mainly use it as a mobile rig with my macbook w/thunderbolt.
I've used USB 2.0 with my old cheese grater macpro and I've not had any latency issues. So USB is a good plan B if you have any thunderbolt issues. But if you follow Mike's advice on adapters you should be good to go.

BTW, if the 828-es is anything like the 8pre-es, I think you'll really like it. Very clean sound.

Your friendly neighborhood Phil

[Black-Man]

A MDP cable will not work. You need a TB 1 or 2 cable from the unit plugged into an Apple TB2/TB3 adapter plugged into a TB3/4 port depending on the Mac.

OK... just to clarify. I just purchased a Mac Studio which of course has Thunderbolt 4 ports. So... I need this adapter:https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MMEL ... 3c433ed844

And a regular Thunderbolt cable (1/2) plugged into the ES. I am upgrading from a Firewire 400 828mk2 and Mac Pro which I ran a cable 12 ft. I don't see any long Thunderbolt cables... 9 ft max.

[Anders Peev]

OK... just to clarify. I just purchased a Mac Studio which of course has Thunderbolt 4 ports. So... I need this adapter:https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MMEL ... 3c433ed844

This is what I bought too. Works very well with my MBP M1Pro!

And congratualtions to your Mac Studio!!! Did you get yours already? I ordered mine on the release date and won't be recieving it until 7 of april!

[mikehalloran]

A MDP cable will not work. You need a TB 1 or 2 cable from the unit plugged into an Apple TB2/TB3 adapter plugged into a TB3/4 port depending on the Mac.

OK... just to clarify. I just purchased a Mac Studio which of course has Thunderbolt 4 ports. So... I need this adapter:https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MMEL ... 3c433ed844

And a regular Thunderbolt cable (1/2) plugged into the ES. I am upgrading from a Firewire 400 828mk2 and Mac Pro which I ran a cable 12 ft. I don't see any long Thunderbolt cables... 9 ft max.

I haven't seen a 4 meter TB 1/2 cable in years. I'm finding the same 3M cable you are, no doubt.
https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matters-Ce ... _1_27?th=1

The only way I know to extend it is with a Thunderbolt 2 dock or interface that allows daisy-chaining. Very few are made anymore but these are still available. My guess is that, when these are gone, that will be it.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00UU ... s_li_tf_tl

https://www.amazon.com/Elgato-Thunderbo ... B00PAPMSLE

Once upon a time, OWC offered the Drive Dock Thunderbolt. I found one used on eBay and use it in the middle of a daisy chain that connects my 828mkII (Apple FW–TB Adapter) to my iMac Pro (Apple TB2–TB3 adapter). It works surprisingly well and currently contains a pair of 8TB SSDs that I use for this and that.

https://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/TB2U3DRVDCKU/

[HCMarkus]

I was pleased when Mike pointed out that 3 Meter TB2 Cable to me a while ago. For $53 (white cable), it uses the same connectors as a TB1 and is thus ready to plug into an 828es. The other end, as noted, will need the Apple TB Adaptor to work with the newer versions of TB on USB C connectors.

The fact the828es uses TB1 is actually an advantage, because it allows the 3M cable to be used. Try to find a TB3 or 4 cable longer than 2M... Oh, look! Apple has one; for $160, and you'll still need the adaptor.

If you want a cable longer than 3 Meters, you will have to go optical, and be prepared to pay over $300. In my case, 3M is just long enough to get from my machine closet to my equipment rack.

PS: I love my 828es. I've had it since it was first introduced. I should mention, it works perfectly under USB, which is how I've been using it with my 5,1 Mac Pro. With a 15' USB cable.

PPS: My Mac Studio is now, reportedly, Stateside and due to arrive here on Monday.

[Black-Man]

I was pleased when Mike pointed out that 3 Meter TB2 Cable to me a while ago. For $53 (white cable), it uses the same connectors as a TB1 and is thus ready to plug into an 828es. The other end, as noted, will need the Apple TB Adaptor to work with the newer versions of TB on USB C connectors.

The fact the828es uses TB1 is actually an advantage, because it allows the 3M cable to be used. Try to find a TB3 or 4 cable longer than 2M... Oh, look! Apple has one; for $160, and you'll still need the adaptor.

If you want a cable longer than 3 Meters, you will have to go optical, and be prepared to pay over $300. In my case, 3M is just long enough to get from my machine closet to my equipment rack.

PS: I love my 828es. I've had it since it was first introduced. I should mention, it works perfectly under USB, which is how I've been using it with my 5,1 Mac Pro. With a 15' USB cable.

PPS: My Mac Studio is now, reportedly, Stateside and due to arrive here on Monday.

Gotcha. Guess I'll buy a 15ft HDMI cable for a longer run between the monitor. And to think the original 828mk2 I had came with a 15ft firewire cable back in the day. I also have 2x Micro Express which will probably be better served going in the 2x USB1.0 ports leaving the mouse/keyboard/DP Controller to use a USB1.0->3.0 adapter thingy (thankfully those are cheap). And of course I have an iLok dongle... think I'll just get a USB 3.0 version. What a PITA.

Thanks for everyone's help!!

[HCMarkus]

Pretty sure all you need is a USB hub with Type A Jacks.

[mothra]

Try to find a TB3 or 4 cable longer than 2M... Oh, look! Apple has one; for $160, and you'll still need the adaptor.

LOL the one that came with my Sonnet eGPU was like a foot long, a complete joke. I've got my Mac mini stashed on my desk underneath my monitor and they really expect you to stick that big ass box right next to it?

Now that I think about it, I think the eGPU has a pass through port. I could probably move that to the other side under my desk and stretch a 10 foot TB cable to reach the MOTU. I think Im just a little too far away to get to the Mac so I've got 15' USB instead.. Still never had a 'bandwidth' issue though.