Crash on Open 7.11 / 7 .12

[bigcityrecording]

Has anyone been experiencing crashes when opening up a session in DP 7.11/7.12 esp from sessions that were started in DP 5.x?

I have several sessions, many unrelated to each other, that will crash dp on open. They all seem to have in common that they were created in dp5.x.... The only way I've been able to get them to open at all lately is to start up DP and not open a session, then turn MAS off (MIDI only). The session then loads up just fine without audio, of course. At that point, I disable all audio tracks (by clicking on the blue dot) and save it. I then turn MAS back on and one by one enable each audio track.

If I close that session and then reopen it again, it crashes on open... So frustrating!!

I suppose I could go back to 7.1 - didn't seem to have that problem until 7.11 as I recall...

Has anybody else experienced this? Any fixes?

Paul

[Phil O]

Hmm, I just tried it and couldn't duplicate your crash. Have you tried Loading the sequence into a new project? I know that's not the solution you're looking for, but it might be a work-around.

Phil

[magicd]

If turning MAS off allows you to open the file, that indicates the problem is audio oriented. I speculate you have an old plug-in somewhere in these files that is causing the crash. Get the file open, delete all third party plugs except one, save under a new name. Can you open the file with MAS engaged? Continue to do this, adding a new plug-in each time, until you isolate the culprit.

Dave

[mhschmieder]

I had this happen on a couple of projects that hadn't been opened in awhile, and narrowed it down to Altiverb.

Even recent projects give me occasional crashes if they have Altiverb instances -- even though the plug-in instance is disabled since I disable all plug-ins and VI's before closing/saving my projects.

Dave's suggestion of isolating the problematic MAS plug-in is one that I use now and then, and it is almost always Altiverb at fault. You don't mention which third-party MAS plug-ins you are using, so there may be others that occasionally cause faults as well. Dave's process of elimination formula should help you pinpoint it.

In Altiverb's case, there appears to be a problem specifically with the help page. If you ever invoked the help page from the plug-in, you will see in your crash log that in fact it is the inability to bring up the help page for the older installation (which has been upgraded, most likely, since the last time the project was opened or revised), that is causing the crash.

I know this is a specific situation I am describing, but I think it is worth detailing here (I forgot to do so earlier), as it might provide some hints both for other users facing occasional crashes either on startup or during simple project navigation, and also for MOTU themselves -- for MAS plug-ins in general, and not just Altiverb.

I am now making it a policy to delete (and later replace, after a file save) any instances of third-party MAS plug-ins as soon as I start up a project that was last opened in an earlier version of DP (even point release differences) and/or before an upgrade to that plug-in or VI. This is yet another reason to save your settings as named presets, so that you can recall every detail of your custom setting if you have to do this at some point. I also annotate my plug-in settings in separate text-based project descriptor files.

[bigcityrecording]

thanks, guys - all great ideas...

I am using Altiverb - probably 6 instances of it. I am also using a lot of UAD-2 plugs. I was under the impression that all of my 3rd party plugs were AU, not MAS.... Maybe I was wrong about that.

It does seem related to new tracks that I recorded after I had mixed these particular projects. I removed the LA2A plugs (UAD-2) and that seems to have helped. But, I will do a process of elimination pass, too...

thanks!

Paul

[Frodo]

Paul-- there may be some other unpredictable issues with fades. Perhaps the "rendered" fades from DP5.x and earlier are not translating to DP7.x's real time fades feature.

Of course, magicd's suggestion to check plugins is wise. I would also wonder about something such as Autotune: if it's pre-EVO and what all the ramifications are with everything "thereunto appertaining".

[bigcityrecording]

Paul-- there may be some other unpredictable issues with fades. Perhaps the "rendered" fades from DP5.x and earlier are not translating to DP7.x's real time fades feature.

Of course, magicd's suggestion to check plugins is wise. I would also wonder about something such as Autotune: if it's pre-EVO and what all the ramifications are with everything "thereunto appertaining".

The interesting thing is that upon further research, the files that I'm having trouble with are recent saves in 7.11. When I go further back into sessions of that song saved as 5.13, they open just fine.... So, it's something with how I created the new tracks.

What I did was duplicate from another track that had all the plug-ins I needed then I delete the audio files in the new track. I did this 6 or 7 times, so I have a feeling it has to do with that.

I'm not using any Autotune on this particular session...

Anyway, I'm glad that there does seem to be a way out. I've put an enormous amount of time in on this particular project and if it was rendered useless I'd have to kill myself!! ha ha

[jwmbattista]

I LOVE this forum! Just when I thought I had lost weeks of work I came to Motunation and there was the answer I needed. Right there. So thank you to you people who spend time working to problem-solve so klutzes like me can come along and benefit from your hard work. Respect.

[David Polich]

I would suspect that the cause of the crashes is outdated or incompatible plug-ins. If you have a second Mac, without the plug-ins you have on your main Mac, you can open the project there - you'll get a message saying
that some plug-ins are missing. If you hit "Cancel", the missing plugs won't be cleared, but they will show up as italicized and greyed-out on the inserts where you had them. This way you can identify what plugs might be causing the crashes. Then go back to your components folder on your Main Mac (or MAS folder, if they're MAS) and pull them out. Izotope's Ozone 4 is both MAS and AU, the installer puts the MAS version in your MAS folder - check to see if there are third-party MAS plugs which might be the problem.

Another way to track down wayward bad plugs is to simply pull every AU plug out of the components folder and place it in a temporary folder on your music Mac's desktop. Launch DP and if it doesn't crash on startup then you have an AU plug that is problematic. You can also pull MAS plugs out of the MAS folder and place them in a temp folder as well - DP doesn't need its plugs to start up.

Once you have identified what may be problematic plug-ins, put your known "good ones" back in their respective folders, then clear the Audio Unit info cache so DP will re-scan your plug-ins.

[James Steele]

Paul-- it might be useful to tell us what kind of Mac you're using. I suspect maybe it's PPC? I used to get Altiverb related crashes quite a bit on project load, but recently got a used Mac Pro and haven't had one since. "and it makes me wonder..."

[bigcityrecording]

Paul-- it might be useful to tell us what kind of Mac you're using. I suspect maybe it's PPC? I used to get Altiverb related crashes quite a bit on project load, but recently got a used Mac Pro and haven't had one since. "and it makes me wonder..."

Hey, James

I'm using a MacPro 3.0ghz with 5g RAM, UAD-2 card, OSX 10.4.11, Altiverb 6.x... I'm pretty certain it has to do with UAD-2 plugs and/or Altiverb. When I removed some of the UAD plugs from the new tracks I inserted, it opens fine.... Yet it is disturbing that duplicating tracks/plugs would cause this problem....

I'll continue to monitor my progress and report back...

thanks!

[Shooshie]

When I had this problem one night, I found that it was because of -- due to recent installs -- I had Altiverb running both in MAS and AU. I unchecked the AU version in the plugin list (after starting with the shift key down, which pauses at the Plugins Prefs) and everything was peachy afterward. You could uncheck the MAS version and use the AU with probably equally good results.

Shooshie

[Frodo]

When I had this problem one night, I found that it was because of -- due to recent installs -- I had Altiverb running both in MAS and AU. I unchecked the AU version in the plugin list (after starting with the shift key down, which pauses at the Plugins Prefs) and everything was peachy afterward. You could uncheck the MAS version and use the AU with probably equally good results.

Shooshie

Indeed--- MAS and AU are slowly but increasingly becoming incompatible- or at least unwilling to coexist. Having to delete one or the other is disquieting in ways which may be better explained in another thread. But, if it works, it works.

[bigcityrecording]

I unchecked the AU version in the plugin list (after starting with the shift key down, which pauses at the Plugins Prefs) and everything was peachy afterward.Shooshie

Shooshie - how exactly do you access the AU/MAS check boxes in the plug-in list? I tried holding down shift while starting DP and it simply started without loading the audio engine... Is there some kind of control panel somewhere that allows you to choose MAS/AU?

thanks!

[synthtek2k]

Hi All -

I'm having a similar issue.

Mac Pro 2.26 8 core with 16GB ram.. DP 7.12, OS 10.5.8.

Working on a short file editing dialog and placing in folley. Lots of fades. Added one plugin to the tracks Waves L1 latest version. Movie file is H.264. The file was working one night, the next day when I try to open it, it loads then after 5 seconds crashes...

I tried the previous save before the added foley tracks and movie conversion to h.264 and it works fine. Added the newer movie file and it works fine.

Disabled all the plugs via preferences went back to the newer file and it still crashes.

Any thoughts? Would hate to have to redo all the work I've done so far.

First thing in the bug report says kernel crash xooooooo etc...

I can post the bug report later if that would help.

Thanks in advance
John