Do's ans Don't's for a Crash free DP
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This forum is for seeking solutions to technical problems involving Digital Performer and/or plug-ins on MacOS, as well as feature requests, criticisms, comparison to other DAWs.
This forum is for seeking solutions to technical problems involving Digital Performer and/or plug-ins on MacOS, as well as feature requests, criticisms, comparison to other DAWs.
Hate to say it, but Cubase 4 has never -once- crashed on OSX for me. I kid you not. And I throw all sorts of VIs at it, within a 400-track MIDI session, syncing to MTC, running QuickTime video, you name it. I whip around in the UI, relocate, do what you will, before, during, and after file saves. Stable as a rock.
I only make this point in lieu of the fact that my colleague, who recently upgraded to the "latest and greatest" Mac Pro Intel 8-core, is experiencing increasingly more inexplicable crashes from DP 5 and DP 6 (which he reports to be more confusing and less reliable). It seems to be far more stable on PowerPC Macs.
The frustrating thing is that there are no clear answers or solutions to these seemingly elusive bugs and glitches that bring DP down left right and center. The suggestions in this thread are great, and I've noticed similar behavior from Performer. But what we really want is a FIX for these issues - issues other sequencers don't have to deal with. MOTU only has to deal with one platform - OSX, and typically one interface scheme - MOTU audio hardware. It's not like we're dealing with Windows and the umpteen billion hardware combinations.
In our case, DP 6 was a big disappointment. We've had to revert to 5.13 for a slew of reasons. So far, reducing the number of VIs has helped abate the crashes to a dull roar, but we're talking about 8 massive cores, with the cpu floating well below maxing out. Most of the crashes seem to occur after freak spikes of the CPU meter to 100% in the red. Perhaps it's certain VIs that are not Intel/Leopard friendly, or perhaps DP is just a piece of garbage. That's what we're trying to determine right now. But in heavy production cycles, who has time to waste days experimenting with adding/removing plugins, altering settings, and reinstalling software? That's exactly what our lovely friends at MOTU tech support are asking us to do.
I only make this point in lieu of the fact that my colleague, who recently upgraded to the "latest and greatest" Mac Pro Intel 8-core, is experiencing increasingly more inexplicable crashes from DP 5 and DP 6 (which he reports to be more confusing and less reliable). It seems to be far more stable on PowerPC Macs.
The frustrating thing is that there are no clear answers or solutions to these seemingly elusive bugs and glitches that bring DP down left right and center. The suggestions in this thread are great, and I've noticed similar behavior from Performer. But what we really want is a FIX for these issues - issues other sequencers don't have to deal with. MOTU only has to deal with one platform - OSX, and typically one interface scheme - MOTU audio hardware. It's not like we're dealing with Windows and the umpteen billion hardware combinations.
In our case, DP 6 was a big disappointment. We've had to revert to 5.13 for a slew of reasons. So far, reducing the number of VIs has helped abate the crashes to a dull roar, but we're talking about 8 massive cores, with the cpu floating well below maxing out. Most of the crashes seem to occur after freak spikes of the CPU meter to 100% in the red. Perhaps it's certain VIs that are not Intel/Leopard friendly, or perhaps DP is just a piece of garbage. That's what we're trying to determine right now. But in heavy production cycles, who has time to waste days experimenting with adding/removing plugins, altering settings, and reinstalling software? That's exactly what our lovely friends at MOTU tech support are asking us to do.
Re: Do's ans Don't's for a Crash free DP
I have to agree. We're going back to 5.13. I'm not at all sure this current version of 6 is more efficient, it seems to use more cpu and ram. Im not a huge fan of the new GUI and a lot of the minor niggling productivity things still seem to be there so we too are fairly disappointed. I also really hate the smug I told you so look on the face of my Logic friends. I may yet have to join them.
- Eleventh Hour Sound
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Re:
What are you guys running for hard drives and what do you have for Ram? You don't have your system profile on your link. It doesn't matter if you have 8 Cores if you don't have enough ram or if you're lacking in Hard Drive I/O. One of the Apple stores I used to visit had massive Raids for their Logic Demo.orchetect wrote:Hate to say it, but Cubase 4 has never -once- crashed on OSX for me. I kid you not. And I throw all sorts of VIs at it, within a 400-track MIDI session, syncing to MTC, running QuickTime video, you name it. I whip around in the UI, relocate, do what you will, before, during, and after file saves. Stable as a rock.
I only make this point in lieu of the fact that my colleague, who recently upgraded to the "latest and greatest" Mac Pro Intel 8-core, is experiencing increasingly more inexplicable crashes from DP 5 and DP 6 (which he reports to be more confusing and less reliable). It seems to be far more stable on PowerPC Macs.
The frustrating thing is that there are no clear answers or solutions to these seemingly elusive bugs and glitches that bring DP down left right and center. The suggestions in this thread are great, and I've noticed similar behavior from Performer. But what we really want is a FIX for these issues - issues other sequencers don't have to deal with. MOTU only has to deal with one platform - OSX, and typically one interface scheme - MOTU audio hardware. It's not like we're dealing with Windows and the umpteen billion hardware combinations.
In our case, DP 6 was a big disappointment. We've had to revert to 5.13 for a slew of reasons. So far, reducing the number of VIs has helped abate the crashes to a dull roar, but we're talking about 8 massive cores, with the cpu floating well below maxing out. Most of the crashes seem to occur after freak spikes of the CPU meter to 100% in the red. Perhaps it's certain VIs that are not Intel/Leopard friendly, or perhaps DP is just a piece of garbage. That's what we're trying to determine right now. But in heavy production cycles, who has time to waste days experimenting with adding/removing plugins, altering settings, and reinstalling software? That's exactly what our lovely friends at MOTU tech support are asking us to do.
DP11.1, 16" MacBookPro 2.3Ghz 8 Core i9's 32GB Ram 1TB SSD, (2) external 1TB Samsung SSD's , Steven Slate SSD 5.5 and Trigger Drums, ML-1 Mic and VSX Headphones, Omnisphere 2, Trilian, Ivory2, EW, MSI, MX-4, Philharmonik 2, Komplete, Reason, Live, Melodyne, IK Multi's Total Studio, ARC, T-RackS, SampleTron, AMG's KickA--Brass. and my beloved guitars
Re: Do's ans Don't's for a Crash free DP
I have to agree with those above who are experiencing overly frequent crashes on Intel/Leopard/6.01 - compared with the stability of our G5/Tiger/5.13 setups. And having to work every day on different jobs for different clients means that we don't have time to be re-installing software, removing plugins, or creating new user accounts (all things that MOTU support have suggested), just to find out where the conflict lies. One job a few days ago one of my favourite plugins, VintageWarmer2 was causing CPU spikes, and when I removed it the problem went away. However in other similar setups the same plugin seems to cause no instability at all. The problem is that the instability we are experiencing is not predictable enough to be able to focus in on what might be causing it, without spending our whole lives doing nothing else. And shurely that's what the MOTU tech department should be doing for us? After 17 years of using Performer we think we deserve it...
Having said all that, after I read in another post on Motunation that running all plug-ins in real-time might help - I switched my preferences, and it does seem to be more stable. I haven't had a crash for two days. Touch wood.
Having said all that, after I read in another post on Motunation that running all plug-ins in real-time might help - I switched my preferences, and it does seem to be more stable. I haven't had a crash for two days. Touch wood.
Macbook Pro, DP11.1
Re: Do's ans Don't's for a Crash free DP
Okay - a day and a half. That didn't last long. Switching to the mixing board, which has caused a lot of crashes for me...celestial wrote: I haven't had a crash for two days. Touch wood.
Macbook Pro, DP11.1
Re: Do's ans Don't's for a Crash free DP
Since I forgot to switch back my buffer from 64 to 1024 I had no one of my two types of crashes:
1. No more crash on stop recording
2. No more crash on save
1. No more crash on stop recording
2. No more crash on save
mac mini 2014/16 G/DP 9.51/Apollo Twin Duo/
Re: Do's ans Don't's for a Crash free DP
I haven't the time to read through the entire thread, at this point, so pardon if this has been covered before.
This is really more of adjusting your approach to engineering, than it is setting up and maintaining the balance between your computer and DP. Most here probably know this, so forgive if there's a perceived insult.
If you're in the habit of loading up on plug-ins on many channels, stop. 99% of the time, there's no need for 5 instances of the same reverb, selected in the inserts of 5 different channels. Better to use an aux send on the chosen channels, create an aux track, and dial in that one plug-in on the insert portion of the aux track. Send to taste. Not only will you use considerably less CPU power, but your mixes will suddenly and mysteriously start sounding more intelligible--imagine that!--and less muddy or swimmy.
I also repair permissions before and after every session. Sometimes, if I'm working on multiple songs in one session, I'll give the band a few minutes' break and repair permissions in between songs. If you have Tech Tool Pro (and if not, I highly recommend getting it), and there's time before and after every session, run the Volume, File, and Directory repair options.
Move a little more slowly, as others have said. Give the program and the computer a second or two, after some mouse clicks, to do its task.
This is really more of adjusting your approach to engineering, than it is setting up and maintaining the balance between your computer and DP. Most here probably know this, so forgive if there's a perceived insult.
If you're in the habit of loading up on plug-ins on many channels, stop. 99% of the time, there's no need for 5 instances of the same reverb, selected in the inserts of 5 different channels. Better to use an aux send on the chosen channels, create an aux track, and dial in that one plug-in on the insert portion of the aux track. Send to taste. Not only will you use considerably less CPU power, but your mixes will suddenly and mysteriously start sounding more intelligible--imagine that!--and less muddy or swimmy.
I also repair permissions before and after every session. Sometimes, if I'm working on multiple songs in one session, I'll give the band a few minutes' break and repair permissions in between songs. If you have Tech Tool Pro (and if not, I highly recommend getting it), and there's time before and after every session, run the Volume, File, and Directory repair options.
Move a little more slowly, as others have said. Give the program and the computer a second or two, after some mouse clicks, to do its task.
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Re:
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Last edited by Tritonemusic on Fri Dec 05, 2008 1:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
DP 10.13, OS 13.6, iMac Pro (2017) 3.2 GHz 8-Core, 32 GB RAM, MOTU M4
Re: Do's ans Don't's for a Crash free DP
During the recent mixing sessions I just started, I also remembered this: clear out unnecessary points along your volume and pan timelines on your soundbites. Many, many times, when doing a pan or volume adjustment, DP will leave a whole lot of points along your path; if they're not really necessary, delete them. By 'necessary', I mean that they don't compromise the integrity of the mix, if they're missing... the volume adjustment or pan move sounds just as good in the mix as with the points.
Every point along those lines is one more piece of information that DP and your CPU have to process. Don't give them extra work, when a straight line will do.
Every point along those lines is one more piece of information that DP and your CPU have to process. Don't give them extra work, when a straight line will do.
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Re: Do's ans Don't's for a Crash free DP
I'm afraid I have to give up on DP6 as well. I had tried using it on a film project last summer (Twilight) and it was far too unpredictable, but I chalked that up to the complexity of the project - lots of VIs and audio tracks. But I'm just starting a project from scratch on a well-equipped system and with only a few tracks and a few VIs it's DP6 is already unstable. So it's back to DP5.13, although I'm definitely going to experiment with the competition as well.
Carter Burwell
Carter Burwell
- daniel.sneed
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Re: Do's ans Don't's for a Crash free DP
I've been thru the same story with a piano sustain pedal sending around 10 MIDI informations / second while resting idle.echohaus wrote: ... clear out unnecessary points along your volume and pan timelines on your soundbites. ... if they're not really necessary, delete them. By 'necessary', I mean that they don't compromise the integrity of the mix, if they're missing...
The great amount of useless informations was bogging DP6 down.
DP's "thin continuous data" just wiped all the junk and kept useful pedal action.
dAn Shakin' all over!
DP11.31, OS12.7.5, MacBookPro-i7-3.1Ghz-16GoRam-1ToSSD
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DP11.31, OS12.7.5, MacBookPro-i7-3.1Ghz-16GoRam-1ToSSD
Falcon, Kontakt, Ozone, RX, Unisum & Michelangelo, LX480, Sparkverb
Waldorf Iridium & STVC & Blofeld, Kemper Profiler Stage, EWIusb, Studiologic VMK, ControlPad
JBL4326+4312sub, Behringer X32rack
Many mics, mandolins, banjos, guitars, flutes, melodions, xylos, kalimbas...
- timriley
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Re: Do's ans Don't's for a Crash free DP
Be sure to save before you reconfigure your side info bars in DP6 (currently 6.02), i.e. adding or removing tabs.
I've had a few freezes, quickly followed by a crash whilst doing this, although not for a week or so it has to be said..
Still, I always save before changing anything in the sidebars.
I've had a few freezes, quickly followed by a crash whilst doing this, although not for a week or so it has to be said..
Still, I always save before changing anything in the sidebars.
Mac Pro Quad XEON/2.8Ghz/12GB RAM
Macbook Pro Core Duo/2.16Ghz/2GB RAM
OSX 10.6.8/DP7.22
Macbook Pro Core Duo/2.16Ghz/2GB RAM
OSX 10.6.8/DP7.22
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Re: Do's ans Don't's for a Crash free DP
DP 6.02 will freeze when trying to enter a controller # to filter: setup>input filter>add controller #> freeze
DP 8.07 64 bit, OS 10.10.5, Mac Pro 5,1 12-core 3.33ghz, 16GB ram, lots 'o plugs and VIs
- James Steele
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Re: Do's ans Don't's for a Crash free DP
Hmmm... only one post to the forum and it's to announce "giving up" on DP6. Interesting. I'm not even sure... was DP 6.0 even *released* last summer? If so, just barely and you were definitely using version 6.0-- a version that admittedly had problems. Any way, DP 6.02 has been out for a while. Have you tried that one... the most recent version since your one post to this board or have you given up and gone away?carterburwell wrote:I'm afraid I have to give up on DP6 as well. I had tried using it on a film project last summer (Twilight) and it was far too unpredictable, but I chalked that up to the complexity of the project - lots of VIs and audio tracks. But I'm just starting a project from scratch on a well-equipped system and with only a few tracks and a few VIs it's DP6 is already unstable. So it's back to DP5.13, although I'm definitely going to experiment with the competition as well.
Carter Burwell
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Mac Studio M1 Max, 64GB/2TB, MacOS 14.5, DP 11.31, MOTU 828es, MOTU 24Ai, MOTU MIDI Express XT, UAD-2 TB3 Satellite OCTO, Console 1 Mk2, Avid S3, NI Komplete Kontrol S88 Mk2, Red Type B, Millennia HV-3C, Warm Audio WA-2A, AudioScape 76F, Dean guitars, Marshall amps, etc., etc.!
Mac Studio M1 Max, 64GB/2TB, MacOS 14.5, DP 11.31, MOTU 828es, MOTU 24Ai, MOTU MIDI Express XT, UAD-2 TB3 Satellite OCTO, Console 1 Mk2, Avid S3, NI Komplete Kontrol S88 Mk2, Red Type B, Millennia HV-3C, Warm Audio WA-2A, AudioScape 76F, Dean guitars, Marshall amps, etc., etc.!
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Re: Do's ans Don't's for a Crash free DP
Shifting MIDI notes while the sequence in playing crashes DP nearly every time on my system, 10.5.6 and DP6.02.
Creativity, some digital stuff and analogue things that go boom. crackle, bits of wood with strings on them that go twang