MOTUnation.com

Nation:

I've been a DP user for many years now; I started with DP8 and have bought each upgrade thru 10.

Now I've been considering going with 11, especially now that 11.3 is released, but I've got a few concerns.

It seems to me that DP has fallen behind the curve somewhat. In lists of favored DAWS, the one in Future Music magazine for example, DP is absent. Nowhere in the Top 5, maybe not even the TOP 10. Others that haven't been around hardly as long... I'm thinking PreSonus' Studio One, which was released in 2009, while DP dates back to 1990... are getting a lot more attention.

Plus, a few of my tech support concerns have gone unresolved. It seems it's harder to get attention. (I think it's a fair guess that the pandemic didn't make anything easier.)

And I haven't gotten an email regarding any new online training webinars in a long time. I used to really like those.

I really want to stick with what I've grown so comfortable with, but...

Where does MOTU stand in all of this? Is the company in good shape? Would an investment in DP 11.3 be a good one for the long haul?

Thanks for any insights that might be offered.

Jim Westlyn

My opinion is just based on my own artistic goals, and my limited experiences with other DAWs. In short, DP still meets my needs.

For me, it still has best-in-class MIDI tools for composition-- but my composition methods are not based on loops & sync'ed groove machines. I'm talking about complex transposition, quantization, and an array of tools that make advanced composition possible-- especially where rhythm is concerned. Even the arpeggiator, though not eye-candy, has unexpected power.

For audio, I'm able to use all the 3rd part plugins and VI's that I need. And DP does make it easy to create defaults, templates, and other workflow things that make complex work fast & if-not-easy-at-least-not-painful. There are good editing tools and robust automation things, too.

I've moved to other DAW's twice and both times came crawling back with my tail between my legs. When I work with other artists who are in different platforms, I just burn finished tracks to contiguous audio tracks that start at time zero.

As for future-proofing, any DAW is just a hardware or OS update away from breaking. So I always have to be careful about udpating my OS or my hardware, checking to make sure I'm not breaking my main tools (like DP). So far, DP has been hanging in there. If at some point, if MOTU was to stop updating DP, I would in that hypothetical case keep the latest DP installer and the last machine/OS it last ran on, until I can't anymore.

The 11.3 udpate does seem to have squashed quite a few long-standing bugs-- while adding a couple nagging little new ones. I fully expect MOTU to get version 11 in ship-shape.

My two cents? Go for it.

Thoughts:

Does DP do what you want, or do other DAWs do more of what you want? If another DAW does what you want better you should get that and at least use it some of the time. No DAWs do everything I want, so I use three of them, although I usually start and end a project with DP.

A magazine, Future Music for one, and particularly one that depends on advertising revenue, is not a useful place to get information about DAWs beyond getting started to see what might be out there.

Whether DP will be around in the long term is something we’ll never know until it’s too late. Another reason to have more than one DAW you know on your system.

There’s a recurring discussion about whether MOTU’s tech support is good. At least it exists, and is easy to access. Logic has none at all. When I’ve tried to get support on Cubase, it’s been met mostly with S&A. It always surprises me when people say they get no reply or help. I always get a reply often with suggestions, and usually a solution. I have 32 tickets since DP 5.01 and just about all of them resulted in something useful. The only thing I can think of that might distinguish mine is that I try to be very clear and detailed in the descriptions, and usually first ask people here if they can repeat the problem. It also helps to try to reproduce the problem without the presence of plugins that might not be the best pieces of code.

I wasn’t going to get into the problem of OS updates — it wasn’t that close to the question posed. But yes, you have to be careful applying Apple OS updates. Look at all the posts here that deal with trying to get DP working with the latest OS version. Apple has a cavalier attitude towards developers and their QA ain’t what it used to was. They’ve even manage to lunch Logic a couple of times in the last few years.

My recent (5+years) experience with their tech support has been absolutely stellar. There has been some personnel turn over that may have resulted in some spotty support at times, but I get the impression there is now a very dedicated team behind their products. There have been more frequent DP updates lately than I can recall in many years.

I don't always get an email notification of webinars, but to the best of my knowledge there is one every single Friday except for holidays. Granted, the MOTU TV YouTube channel is very slow to roll out, but it appears that some editing and visual enhancement is being applied that make them a lot better than your standard Zoom meeting.

If I had one solid criticism of MOTU, it would be their marketing, which seems to be dwindling all the time, but considering the quality of online and print publications these days, the money spent on advertising might be better spent elsewhere.

And of course, there is this forum which is also a great asset, and is much more civil than your average internet cesspool.

This is in the wrong forum. This belongs in the OT, Theoretical Forum, etc. Moved.

I've been using Digital Performer (originally Performer) for 36 years. It is nice to stick with the same DAW for so long. I'm still learning new things in it! As I previously mentioned in another thread, a lot of MOTU's relative stability comes from the fact that their "bread and butter" is probably the hardware interfaces they sell. DP is just the icing on the cake. I am worried their hardware business may be suffering from recent supply chain/chip shortage issues. But hopefully they will survive and keep putting out new versions of DP even after I'm dead!

If not, I'll just stick with the last version they put out. After all, I'm still using DP 9.12 now and probably won't upgrade until I HAVE to buy a new Mac!

Doug

DP 11 rocks. Even if the company stopped releasing updates now, I'd probably stick with DP for at least several years. I just know it too well... and it works great!

I'd rather fight than switch. Anyone remember that slogan?

HCMarkus wrote: I'd rather fight than switch. Anyone remember that slogan?

It was a brand of cigarette, right? Tarenton? The ads always had someone with a black eye if I recall. I was a kid!! Haha.

DP still kicks ass. But I like to call if the “Rodney Dangerfield of DAWs.” Because I tell ya… it gets no respect… you know what I mean?

I exaggerate but it is criminally overlooked and seemingly off the radar when you read general purpose audio forums. Perhaps we ought to do DP week where we all change our avatars in various forums to the DP11 app icon. Might open some eyes.

We've been hearing about the eventual demise of MOTU for decades. There have been many threads over the years asking the same basic question. Hasn't happened yet and an update to DP 11 dropped a few days ago.

I have licenses for a number of DAWs but DP and Logic are the only ones I use. Logic is necessary for me because I collaborate with other users but I never, ever begin or finish a project in LPx. Both have phone support but MOTU follows up. Apple treats phone support as a dirty little secret but they do offer it for for their Pro Apps (Logic, Final Cut, Main Stage, Compressor and Motion).

MOTU is better than almost everyone about keeping up with Apple. Sonoma was released two months ago and DP 11.3 is compatible. Yes, there are a few issues but there always are—it's software.

Thanks to everyone who took valuable time out of their day to share a point of view.

If DP is not getting "respect", is it mostly because MOTU's not pumping money into the ad budget?
(I hadn't noticed before it was mentioned that I don't often see MOTU ads in these mags.)

I'm grateful to be involved with this forum: You guys step up!

Thanks,
Jim Westlyn

In the old days, Sweetwater pushed DP fairly heavily and it showed up in a lot of ads, I think including Mix Magazine and other pro audio publications. Those days are long gone, and Sound-On-Sound treats it as a second-tier DAW in terms of frequency of coverage. And yet, other DAW's that were considered more popular have gone bye-bye (though zombified).

It's easy to forget that MOTU is a hardware company first and foremost, that they make robust devices that are excellent value for their price point and even a few that are truly in the top-end pro audio vs. prosumer or intermediate market. The last I heard, MOTU's hardware business was still going strong. I don't think DP was ever a cash cow, or its predecessor either.

The webinars never went anywhere, here's the current schedule and link.
https://motu.com/en-us/products/softwar ... vZAa0Y1S_I

Yes, MOTU are terrible at advertising, Mat LePoint isn't he's great, but he can't carry it all. It is what it is, at the webinars even being 57 I'm one of the younger people there. IMO DP hasn't broken through to millennials and Z etc. Not all of them are "producers" a lot play an instrument etc. I sometimes think MOTU are happy where they are with DP, I don't know? They do update it all the time.

To me the selling point is this, DP isn't as much of a pain to set up as Reaper, the GUI isn't Windows 95 level, and it's not missing basic musical features like count in being only while recording. Live, Logic and Bitwig all do not give you an option for count in without being in record. So no practicing a part etc. Things like that drive me more nuts than momentary glitches in audio when adding a plugin or turning off the cycle bar.

What I think DP is missing is basic walk throughs, i.e. you're a rock band, how would you use it, You're a classical or Jazz composer, or interested in electronic music etc. There are a ton of walkthroughs of all the massive catalogue of features in DP but mostly they show how a TV or film composer might use it. That's an audience. but there are plenty of other end users out there. Most of Motunation anyway is not made up of electronic music people, but there are actually really great things buried in DP for that genre, Groove Quantize is pretty cool, I never really messed with it until the other day.

I've been guilty of skipping major version updates, and every time I get around to catching up, I wish I'd done it sooner. There's always a ton of improvements you find only through driving it.

I've taken the good advice of all the members of the DP Universe who responded and upgraded to DP 11.

My new question: Is there some trick to getting both VST2's and VST3's to play nice together in the same project?

I've got many more VST3's now and it seems I have to chose one or the other.

Thanks,
Jim Westlyn