MOTUnation.com

monkey man wrote: ↑Mon Jul 03, 2023 3:33 am Honestly James, I don't believe the multiple A/D and D/A stages would matter in this day and age...

I tend to agree with this. Converters have gotten really good. That 828es you have, James, sports some serious conversion and really good analog circuitry.

Your friendly neighborhood Phil

James Steele wrote: ↑Mon Jul 03, 2023 12:50 amOne reason, off the top of my head is if, for example, when you put two hardware compressors in series using two of DP’s hardware inserts on a mono audio track, you’re introducing two A>D and D>A conversions. The first hardware insert converts the digital audio to analog… which goes out an analog output to your first hardware compressor and back into the a return analog input… gets converted BACK into digital… then is passed on to the second hardware insert plugin… gets converted ONCE MORE into analog… out an analog output to the next compressor… processed… then back into an analog input... then converted ONCE AGAIN back into digital…

Why not just put the two compressors in series in the analog domain. That's why you're using outboard gear in the first place, right. One send, one return - simple.

Your friendly neighborhood Phil

Phil O wrote:Why not just put the two compressors in series in the analog domain. That's why you're using outboard gear in the first place, right. One send, one return - simple.

That’s what I intend to do via my analog patchbay.

Great minds think alike.

Phil O wrote: ↑Mon Jul 03, 2023 11:43 amGreat minds think alike.

I've seldom been accused, but thanks!

Phil O wrote: ↑Mon Jul 03, 2023 6:39 am

monkey man wrote: ↑Mon Jul 03, 2023 3:33 am Honestly James, I don't believe the multiple A/D and D/A stages would matter in this day and age...

I tend to agree with this. Converters have gotten really good. That 828es you have, James, sports some serious conversion and really good analog circuitry.

Your friendly neighborhood Phil

You guys are probably right. As usual, I'm likely overthinking this. I need to do some experimentation once the second compressor arrives. I imagine myself hearing some loss of top end (as if my ears are like a German Shepherd's... lol), but it's probably unfounded.

Some of my hesitation comes from some weird behavior I seemed to have involving latency when I tried to run an existing track though my WA-2A using MOTU"s Hardware Insert plugin. I don't remember what problems I had, but I ended up doing an end run around that by simply routing the output of the track to a mono analog out on my 828es... directly into the compressor... and back in to another analog input and creating a new track in DP using that for the input. It was sort of fun, too, as I could see the difference in the waveform as the new track was recorded below the source track.

I have some experimenting to do, but it's been my impression (and I could very well be wrong here) that MOTU's implementation of the Hardware Insert plug-in isn't as robust as it could be. To repeat myself, I have a sense that there's a resurgence of interest in outboard analog gear and having really good integration with that is going to be a big selling point for the DAW that does it right .

I’ve not touched my analog patch bay nor effects rack in 20 years other than to tell my wife, “No, you do Not get to throw it away!” I don’t know if this is the year it returns from exile in my garage…

There's definitely something to be said for the magic it imparts brother.

Just think, if you broke it out you could become Magic Mike™, something the missus is unlikely to object to.

She won't be telling you to throw it out anymore...

mikehalloran wrote: ↑Tue Jul 04, 2023 8:12 pm I’ve not touched my analog patch bay nor effects rack in 20 years other than to tell my wife, “No, you do Not get to throw it away!” I don’t know if this is the year it returns from exile in my garage…

Whatchya got? Seems to me that some of it is worthwhile to incorporate, like analog compressors, especially gear that runs through tubes or transformers. It's sort of like a saturation plug-in but more organic/better/real.

On the other hand, it doesn't seem like there's any reason to patch in anything digital like digital reverbs, digital delays, etc. Although even some of those units have circuitry that boosts the input signal to the converters which imparts a certain coloration. I think in the manual for PSP's new PCM42 delay emulation plugin (I used to own a REAL one... dumbest thing I ever did to sell it, but I was young and I recall I need the money for car repairs) they mention that there was some coloration there.

I have a "boneyard" of stuff out in my garage and I was just looking at it today wondering if any of it would be useful. Mostly it wouldn't be. Delays, reverbs, modulation (unless you're talking old school analog units... bucket brigade delays.) probably are best left to plugins. In addition to the WA-2A and soon 76F, I have very old FMR Audio RNC (Really Nice Compressor) I've owned since the early 90s. I'm curious to test how that sounds. It hasn't been powered up in decades. Also have a Behringer Ultrafex II which is some sort of exciter circuit. Curious about that too, but in all likelihood, I suspect there's no point in trying.

Honestly, the thing that has me tied up in knots is wondering whether I really want to go through with buying a used Slate Raven MTi2 this Thursday or bow out. But that's off topic here.

Looks good in the rack!

Very nice James!

I definitely jealous.

Thanks all! This is definitely going to help me debug MOTU's Hardware Insert plug-in. I'm already discovering issues and reporting them to MOTU. One thing that's odd about my optical compressor, is that I got a vastly different reading recently from it as far as latency when I tested it with the Hardware Insert plug-in. Not only that, if I moved the Hardware Insert plugin from Insert A to Insert B, the connection to the analog send and return jacks on my interface is broken even though it indicates it's still connected. I have to change each to a different output/input and then back again.

Reporting this to MOTU!