Uncomfortable calling myself a "composer".

Discussions about composing, arranging, orchestration, songwriting, theory, etc...

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Discussions about composing, arranging, orchestration, songwriting, theory and the art of creating music in all forms from orchestral film scores to pop/rock.
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Re: Uncomfortable calling myself a "composer".

Post by Frodo »

Just to add:
In 1897 Rachmaninoff released his First Symphony. In its debut, the conductor of the orchestra, Alexander Glazunov, was rumored to be drunk and gave a subsequently horrible performance. Although today's musicians recognize Rachmaninoff's First Symphony as a great piece, the first performance was so bad that Sergei Rachmaninoff became the laughing stock of his fellow musicians.

The trauma caused by the extreme failure of one of his pieces took its toll on Rachmaninoff. After the failure of his First Symphony, Sergei stopped composing for three years and battled extreme depression. Rachmaninoff struggled to reenter the music world as a conductor, perhaps, but not a composer. Eventually, the Philharmonic Society of London asked Rachmaninoff to conduct and perform one of his own pieces in Queen's Hall. The Philharmonic Society probably meant for Rachmaninoff to perform his First Concerto, which had already been written, but instead Rachmaninoff decided to write a brand new concerto.

Rachmaninoff instantly ran into writer's block when trying to compose this new concerto. His three year drought of composing had taken its toll on his creative instincts and he could not come up with any good ideas. Eventually, Rachmaninoff turned to Dr. Nikolai Dahl, a prominent psychologist, for psychological help. Dr. Dahl used hypnosis to help stimulate Rachmaninoff's mind. The hypnosis apparently worked, because Rachmaninoff quickly created his most famous and popular work: his Second Piano Concerto. With great gratitude, Rachmaninoff dedicated this brilliant and beautiful work to Dr. Nikolai Dahl.
http://library.thinkquest.org/27110/nof ... inoff.html
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Re: Uncomfortable calling myself a "composer".

Post by MIDI Life Crisis »

The moral is to get $hitfaced after the premiere. LOL!
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Re: Uncomfortable calling myself a "composer".

Post by skyy38 »

Mr. Quimper wrote:I come from a visual arts background. I've spent the majority of my life cultivating skills as an illustrator, not a musician. Something happened around the time I turned 20 and before I knew it I ended up with two degrees in Sound Design and had scored/done post sound on over a dozen short films. Now that I've finished my education, I'm having to advertise myself to prospective clients/employers and am having a hard time calling myself a "composer", because I'm really not; well not a good one in a classical sense anyway. I've taken rudimentary classes on music theory and know all the basics, but my sight reading is horrible, I'm an average player, and as a long-time music enthusiast of all genres I'm painfully aware that in the grand scheme of things my music just isn't that good.

The problem is, I enjoy doing it and people keep asking me to score their films. It's a conundrum. I lack any confidence in my abilities or my work, but other people seem to enjoy it well enough (non-musicians though they are) and I can't help but feel that they just aren't aware of how bad I am and that I'm just swindling them somehow and that eventually someone will find out that I'm really not that good. :lol:

To my credit, I'm not a complete hack: I don't use loops or plagiarize other people's work; but I still know that compared to the vast majority of "real composers" and the majority of people on this board my skills are mediocre at best. I'm much more confident as a sound designer/synth programmer/sound editor & mixer, etc (as per my education)...but I still have that urge to create music as well, and having done the work, I can't ignore it and not include it in my resume/demo reel, etc.

I know the best way to resolve this would be to study and get better to a point at which I felt more confident, but I spend so much time just doing the work that I can't find the time to practice for practice's sake or really sit down and study w/ books, etc. I'm not sure where I'm going with this, but any advice would be appreciated!

File this under the heading of " Yes,It CAN Happen To John Williams "

When Steven Spielberg first showed 'John Williams' a cut of the film, Williams was so moved he had to take a walk outside for several minutes to collect himself. Upon his return, Williams told Spielberg he deserved a better composer. Spielberg replied, "I know, but they're all dead."

It's nice to know that you don't need a shopping cart to carry your head around in!

If you are doing the sort of work that keeps people coming back to YOU, then you darn well better buck-up and CALL yourself a composer,OK?

Nothing to it....
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Re: Uncomfortable calling myself a "composer".

Post by skyy38 »

Mr. Quimper,

Can you please post a link to some of your work?

Thanks!
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Re: Uncomfortable calling myself a "composer".

Post by MIDI Life Crisis »

For me the bottom line is storytelling. That makes a great composer (or dancer, actor, painter, or sculptor - sorry to those artists I've left out). And being a good storyteller is more important than being a great musician, IMO.
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Re: Uncomfortable calling myself a "composer".

Post by BenRicoMusic »

Anyone who gets a "writing cramp", or feels like their gonna come up empty with a creation of some sort should be reading this entire post.
I'm new to the forum, and growing up i mostly played keyboards live and did sessions, but my true passion is in composing... All genres of music get to me in one way or another, and for me, music is created all day in my head, during silence, and while listening to other music. Before i got my first laptop 3 years ago, i played hardware synths and didn't do much programming at all. Call it denial, call it not wanting to progress with the technology, doesn't matter. In the end their all excuses for my "inner-insecurities" i guess.
Once I got my head around Logic Pro, and was thrown into the fire with an opportunity to record an album, I had no other voice in my head, but the one saying "GO... GO NOW!!!!!!".
I've since gotten into Programming Mainstage and using my Laptop to control multiple Keyboards, and Controllers... Even though I'm still learning new things everyday, the next step is knowing everything to do with MIDI that I've ran away from for so long.

With my new purchase of Machfive 3, my creative juices are flowing, and I'm gearing up for a solid week of nothing but waking up, and hitting record until bedtime!!!

Influences: D.Elfman, J.Goldsmith, H.Shore, B.Herrmann, Chopin, Gershwin, Bach

... so to sum up everything and relate it to this topic, pretty much everyone of us here reading this forum is a composer... in one way, shape, or form... we're all creating sounds for others to enjoy. How we go about doing it... whether its tracking a band in the studio, or creating a MIDI orchestra on your laptop, or creating a medley of samples,... it's all composition, and our minds tell us where to take it.
This post helped me get back on track... and I hope it continues to help others keep the fire burning! :headbang:
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Re: Uncomfortable calling myself a "composer".

Post by MIDI Life Crisis »

Excellent news from the Elven Kingdom! :) Go for it!
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Re: Uncomfortable calling myself a "composer".

Post by KenNickels »

BenRicoMusic wrote:Anyone who gets a "writing cramp", or feels like their gonna come up empty with a creation of some sort should be reading this entire post.
I'm new to the forum, and growing up i mostly played keyboards live and did sessions, but my true passion is in composing... All genres of music get to me in one way or another, and for me, music is created all day in my head, during silence, and while listening to other music. Before i got my first laptop 3 years ago, i played hardware synths and didn't do much programming at all. Call it denial, call it not wanting to progress with the technology, doesn't matter. In the end their all excuses for my "inner-insecurities" i guess.
Once I got my head around Logic Pro, and was thrown into the fire with an opportunity to record an album, I had no other voice in my head, but the one saying "GO... GO NOW!!!!!!".
I've since gotten into Programming Mainstage and using my Laptop to control multiple Keyboards, and Controllers... Even though I'm still learning new things everyday, the next step is knowing everything to do with MIDI that I've ran away from for so long.

With my new purchase of Machfive 3, my creative juices are flowing, and I'm gearing up for a solid week of nothing but waking up, and hitting record until bedtime!!!

Influences: D.Elfman, J.Goldsmith, H.Shore, B.Herrmann, Chopin, Gershwin, Bach

... so to sum up everything and relate it to this topic, pretty much everyone of us here reading this forum is a composer... in one way, shape, or form... we're all creating sounds for others to enjoy. How we go about doing it... whether its tracking a band in the studio, or creating a MIDI orchestra on your laptop, or creating a medley of samples,... it's all composition, and our minds tell us where to take it.
This post helped me get back on track... and I hope it continues to help others keep the fire burning! :headbang:

I have enjoyed reading the posts here on this subject very much. Momentum in work is important because a moving body tends to stay in motion ... meaning, composing music is hard work and it should be practiced consistently, otherwise the effort might make one feel like a fraud. As if a real composer is only the god-like Mozart, because the ideas popped out of his head without any apparent effort. But it's not true. I can assure you this little f*** suffered. It's only human. Stravinsky had trouble with the word "composer" and referred to himself as an "inventor" of music. Semantics? Humbleness? Vodka? Who knows. Like Jesus Christ saying, "I'm just a chip off the old block ..."

I think it's harder today. Thanks or no thanks to Stravinsky, Modernism compels us to be unique at every turn. But heck, a paper hanger is still a paper hanger even if there are a few wrinkles, right?

When I compose, I wonder if the finished product will be equal to the labor and anxiety that I will put into it, and the answer varies. But when it's done I have the satisfaction of knowing that a paper hanger cannot do what I have done.
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Uncomfortable calling myself a "composer".

Post by crduval »

Mr. Quimper wrote:I also feel like I have somewhat of an apprehension towards certain terms, like "music" and "composer", which seem to carry more weight than say, "sound art" or "producer". The former seem loftier, more weighed down by history and expectation. .
I used to get caught up in this thinking too, feeling quite unworthy of the title composer, until I realized that an orchestra is most often just a big cover band! :D


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Re: Uncomfortable calling myself a "composer".

Post by monkey man »

Mr Q, the "gang" would surely be able to name examples, but I heard mention of the writer of the Oliver Twist score's having whistled every tune to a musician (pianist?) who helped make it a reality. There was another... was it a Bernstein?

Anyway, there's been plenty of good music that's been written by individuals who'd surely qualify as "hacks" by the standards you alluded to in the first post. Indeed, many, including the OT composer I mentioned, couldn't play a note on anything.

IOW, fear not. You're probably some sort of genius. :)

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Re: Uncomfortable calling myself a "composer".

Post by MIDI Life Crisis »

Clearly 'twas not Lenny Bernstein although I knew one of his arrangers who did say she was "sick of doing Lenny's work for him" so while he was quite capable, that doesn't mean he didn't have arrangers at the ready, as have many Broadway and blockbuster film composers.

Sometimes it's a matter of having enough time, as has been mentioned earlier, and sometimes it's a matter of being a "whistler." In my very early days (like when I was in my late teens) I worked with a whistler and vowed never to do it again unless there's big bucks in it. It's one thing to collaborate with someone who is capable but lacks time and another to work with someone who lacks the capacity to write and has all the time in the world to criticize work they are clueless about creating or critiquing intelligently. To quote the dwarf in LORT: I say let 'em rot!

And then there's guys like Handel, Vivaldi, Mozart, and all of the three B's who could pump it out faster than you could say "oh, copyist!" Even Gershwin had orchestrators. Must be nice. :)

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Re: Uncomfortable calling myself a "composer".

Post by KenNickels »

Speaking of Bernstein, even greatness can be humbled. I recently read Sondheim's biography by Meryle Sequest in which she wrote about their relationship. As you may recall, Sondheim got his start writing the lyrics for West Side Story. Well, fast forward to modern times - Sondheim is a bona fide musical genius in his own right. So, Bernstein is walking around all day long being grumpy and unpleasant, and a friend asks him, "Hey Lenny, why the long face?" and Bernstein says, "I just heard Sweeney Todd."

Good, better, best, bested. :mumble:
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Re: Uncomfortable calling myself a "composer".

Post by monkey man »

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:Clearly 'twas not Lenny Bernstein although I knew one of his arrangers who did say she was "sick of doing Lenny's work for him" so while he was quite capable, that doesn't mean he didn't have arrangers at the ready, as have many Broadway and blockbuster film composers.
Hey Magilla. I heard this discussion on talkback radio a while back, and the example they gave, besides the OT one, was impressive. I can't for the life of me remember who it was. Bernstein sprung to mind, but it could have been a Gershwin or someone else of similar ilk. The name, along with the toons mentioned, was impressive, and I think that's the point I was making - it is possible to be musically illiterate and churn out hittoons of the highest quality.

Hope you're well, bud.

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Re: Uncomfortable calling myself a "composer".

Post by MIDI Life Crisis »

I'm good dude, thanks. Same to you.

I think Gershwin went to Ravel and asked for composition or orchestration lessons. The master (whichever one it was) asked how much money George had made last year and when he told him, the master responded "I should be taking lessons from you."

And that brings us back on topic - imagine that!

Even though some may disagree, I see music as essentially a language art and, as such, those reasonably fluent in it can easily create words, sentences, structures, and stories. Most important: stories. What is critical for my listening pleasure is the "narrative" and that puts some music into the trash bin for me. And I am looking for a musical narrative, not just words spit out to music. This applies to much theater music as well as most rap as far as I am concerned, and of course most "jingles" and lots of TV stuff is just pure crap. Competently arranged and orchestrated and beautifully performed, but still just a bunch of crap with lipstick on it. Now there's a visual my monkey boy can sink his teeth into!

Oh poo! We're o/t again. Bastids!

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Re: Uncomfortable calling myself a "composer".

Post by cowtothesky »

skyy38 wrote: File this under the heading of " Yes,It CAN Happen To John Williams "

When Steven Spielberg first showed 'John Williams' a cut of the film, Williams was so moved he had to take a walk outside for several minutes to collect himself. Upon his return, Williams told Spielberg he deserved a better composer. Spielberg replied, "I know, but they're all dead."
Yea, I read about that in the LA Times. It was for the movie, "Schindler's List". His score ended up being amazing, as usual.
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