Opinions: Song contest rules unfair?

[MIDI Life Crisis]

I don't think really this thing is aimed at people who actually READ contracts.

That gets back to my earlier comment. There is no such thing as a standard agreement for intellectual property use. People will tell you there is, but there ain't. If they want you badly enough, they will pay what you ask, fly you to wherever, put you up at the best hotels, feed and maybe even clothe you. If you agree to nothing, that's exactly what you'll get.

[Jim]

Now... WHO wants to give away all rights, title and interest in their intellectual property?

FOOLS! That's who.

PS-No Jim, I am NOT calling you a fool.

I understand your POV, Mike, and I admire your passionate and well-articulated arguments. No offense taken.

You could also ask and answer, "Who would work at Burger King or in a coal mine for minimum wage? Fools, that's who!"

Many industries survive by the exploitation of those with less power to cut a better deal. Internships are a mode of exploitation by potential employers, but the intern accepts the trade in experience and networking.

I just learned that in some states, to get a cosmetology license, you have to apprentice first, and it's customary (and legal) to pay somebody with a license to allow you to apprentice for them. That sounds outrageous to me... that I would have to actually have to pay somebody to work for them. But, that's the route to getting my own license. I'm paying for on-the-job training.

Some people just aren't going to have as many opportunities to get noticed as others. I agree that this is basically a bad deal, but it's better than no deal for some. And it seems to me a whirlwind course in the music business, and all you have to pay is rights in perpetuity to one lousy song that may or may not become a huge money-maker. As I understand this, the winner isn't selling their soul... just one song.

It's the same principle that drives the Chinese who used to work in rice paddies into the abysmal factories in the Chinese cities. Hell yes, they're being exploited. But, they see it as preferable to the alternatives.

I would enter a contest like this. I don't call myself a song-writer. I'd trade my rights in the winning song for the prize. I wouldn't see it as any more foolish than volunteering considerable time to work on ProBono projects for battered women, orphans and the poor, which I regularly do. I get less than nothing monetarily from them. I even pay for my own supplies. But, it's worth it, because it makes me feel good. That's worth something, to me.

Have we beaten this dead horse even more dead yet?

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Well, I am one who would NOT work at Burger King. Nor will I have to grow rice. I have marketable skills that are worth more than that. If I didn't have those skills I might consider other work (and when I was acquiring those skills I did - landscape assistant - AKA lawn mower picker-upper; worked in a head shop; made phonograph needles for Pickering; was an information operator and later a business rep for NY Tel - Bell System; even sold towels and worked as a stock boy in -what else? - a party store). But never once during that time did I ever consider selling my music outright. It has nothing to do with wanting fame so bad I was willing to sell my songs for next to nothing. It has everything to do with the integrity my parents taught me. Your name and your honor are all you enter and leave this world with. Those are priceless and those are what these scum bag - slime balls are asking for - at lower than bargain basement prices. I still say DON'T GIVE IT TO THEM. But that's just me.

So who's up for horse meat burgers and a few beers?

[Jim]

I'm not as lucky as you. Head shop?

My worst job was as pot washer in a cafeteria (first job, age 16). I also worked four hours for a Wal-Mart type operation, compressing and banding cardboard boxes on this intimidating, loud and dangerous machine. I walked out on that job. Another job I walked out on by lunch time was toweling off cars at a car wash. They had this perverse pecking order where the lead car wiper got to hold the door open for the customer, and he was the one who got the tip. I wondered how long this poor sap had to eat crap to achieve his status.

I'm up for beers and horse meat burgers. I hear horse is pretty good!

Now I'm going to catch hell from horse lovers. Note to self: "Shut yap."

[MIDI Life Crisis]

You reminded me - my first job was also as a pot washer (not THAT kind of pot!) in a greasy spoon counter place surrounded by prostitutes, gangsters and other vermin - human and otherwise. I also worked in retail for a few hours selling record albums. My life turned around when I went to work accompanying dance classes for a living. In the 1980's that was a hot job to have and I was lucky to have worked with the best- Martha Graham, Alvin Ailey, Julliard, HS for the Performing Arts NYC, etc. There was a lot of theatre and rock bands and touring before the dance stuff, but it never really paid the rent. Usually spent more on the road than I did at home.

[James Steele]

I'm not as lucky as you. Head shop?

My worst job was as pot washer in a cafeteria (first job, age 16). I also worked four hours for a Wal-Mart type operation, compressing and banding cardboard boxes on this intimidating, loud and dangerous machine. I walked out on that job. Another job I walked out on by lunch time was toweling off cars at a car wash. They had this perverse pecking order where the lead car wiper got to hold the door open for the customer, and he was the one who got the tip. I wondered how long this poor sap had to eat crap to achieve his status.

I'm up for beers and horse meat burgers. I hear horse is pretty good!

Now I'm going to catch hell from horse lovers. Note to self: "Shut yap."

Ha... man... done the dishwasher thing as a teen years ago at an IHOP. Not fun. I've had all kinds of crummy jobs as a young person. I've been a janitor for about six months-- that wasn't so great either.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

I've been a janitor for about six months-- that wasn't so great either.

No, but great practice for running this place I bet!

[Jim]

Ha... man... done the dishwasher thing as a teen years ago at an IHOP. Not fun. I've had all kinds of crummy jobs as a young person. I've been a janitor for about six months-- that wasn't so great either.

I was a Porter in a department store when I was 18. This was actually a cool job for me. I cleaned out store rooms, moved hangers, set up display cases, emptied trash (mostly paper), changed light bulbs. I got to hang around all the departments, and flirt with the girls, and wear jeans. I also worked in three filling stations and for Pep Boys, installing tires, batteries, mufflers, etc. I worked in food service in a couple other jobs too, and I can say that being a grease-monkey was much cleaner, and more fun. That was a time when most guys worked on their own cars.

My life wasn't really headed anywhere good. I got it turned around when I was drafted into the Army. And with the GI Bill and getting some discipline really helped me to get my life in order. When I got out, I did a four-year college program in three years full time, and got a job right out of college as an Assistant Film Editor at the coolest film production company in Dallas. It's been pretty smooth sailing ever since. I'm pretty lucky for the way things have turned out.

[monkey man]

First job: Stacking 140 tons' worth of fruit-juice cartons onto palettes at the end of a continuous production line whilst simultaneously taping them up for transport and hand-fork shifting them out of the way. One had to climb a mountain of palettes to access "fresh" ones as required whilst the production line continued to spit out 12kg boxes of fruit juice every 0.8 seconds. Two 3 to 6 metre-high flattened cardboard box stacks resulted from my daily processing of the boxes that the empty fruit-juice containers arrived in (these were large boxes of course). I had to help the old fella who was in charge of juice manufacturing to unload and wheel in the drums of concentrate which were subsequently poured into huge vats and mixed with tap water and vitamin C powder (ever wondered how 100% fruit juice is made? LOL). Oh, and I took care of (fed and ran on my own) the area where the airline orange juice was packaged - you know, the cute little cups and tetra packs?

Lost the use of my hands for 3 years due to overworking in this job (I gigged 'till 3 or 4 AM too with 6:30AM start times, BTW), and am still recovering. I was 19. Guess I overdid it. LOL

EDIT: I had no vehicle either; it was public transport all the way! LOL

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Here's how you are supposed to do it:

http://www.songwritingcompetition.com/rules.htm

Rule #10 IN BOLD on their site!

10. Entrant retains all ownership rights to all submitted song(s). ISC will not have any ownership rights to any song(s) submitted.

Duh!

[monkey man]

If I ever have to litigate, I'll be in touch, Mike; I still reckon you're the man. LOL

EDIT: I said this before I saw your post in another thread where you made it clear you're not appreciating this attempted line of humour, and that you think I'm against the protection of intellectual property. That's absurd, Mike. LOL

I gave it a good run but the market wasn't ready for it; consider it a failed pilot. Sorry Magilla. You're still my go-to-gorilla for practically all matters of the modern world though... especially legal ones.

[hausboy]

I've stopped entering song & lyric contests a long time ago. Little or zero feedback a total waste of time. Maybe it benefits some people but I believe I'll get better feedback off xuwee.com, myspace or soundclick.com.

[James Steele]

I've stopped entering song & lyric contests a long time ago. Little or zero feedback a total waste of time. Maybe it benefits some people but I believe I'll get better feedback off xuwee.com, myspace or soundclick.com.

Agreed. Funny thing is, that contest that I originally posted about was supposed to end on January 30th and they are STILL airing commercials on TV for it, so I'm guessing they extended the deadline as they got a lot of CRAP entries as people didn't want to just GIVE AWAY their rights to their work for some studio time. It's funny-- in the contest commercial they even say "your song will be used in a music video," but they're careful not to say the the artist would be in it.

It really is a total rights grab... they get FREE MUSIC in perpetuity for a few hundred bucks worth of studio time. And actually, they're not really paying the studio anyway, but it's obviously a quid pro quo for mentioning the name of the studio in a commercial that is airing several times per day. So total cost nothing.

I've said it before, but if I were a slime, I'd launch a song contest of my own with rules like that and then use the best songs on my own project... LOL. But then I have some scruples... LOL.

[Pappy725]

But then I have some scruples... LOL.

Not to mention the money and good will you've earned running this place!
Pappy

[James Steele]

But then I have some scruples... LOL.

Not to mention the money and good will you've earned running this place!
Pappy

Heheh... you mean the "good will." The money... well... that's NOT why I do it!