Dynamic mics

[mhschmieder]

I bought an Audix i5 last fall but haven't had a chance yet to try it on vocals, saxophones, or snare drum. I tried it on four radically different guitar amp designs and felt the MD421 still slaughtered it just as with the SM57. Too grainy and lacking detail or articulation. But that's when dealt a mid-range subject at close distance, with a huge dynamic range. Bottom snare head might work well, and vocals of course are always case-by-case. So I'm curious to see how it works out in other contexts because I got mine for $69 new and it could end up being a cheap all-purpose mic to have several at hand. It is at least a "better SM57".

[mhschmieder]

I didn't know the Shure SM7 was still made, or do you have access to a used one? I've never tried one; only the current SM7B which I find overly bright and harsh.

[mhschmieder]

Audix construction is amazing -- perhaps the most robust of any company right now. It makes me regret even more that most of their mics are too coloured for my tastes. I own their CabGrabbers as well (both sizes; there is no overlaps in the extension range) and a transformer-based XLR to 1/4" converter (often necessary for vocoder inputs, amongst other applications). Top-notch build quality, and it's all hand-made in Oregon USA as far as I know.

[Phil O]

I bought an Audix i5 last fall but haven't had a chance yet to try it on vocals, saxophones, or snare drum....

I rarely use my SM 57s any more. The i5 has pretty much taken over where I use to use 57s (and that's mostly for on-stage use.) I have, however, used them occasionally in the studio with good results on tenor sax, snare, toms, and once on a raunchy vocal. A good pre makes a huge difference with this mic. It seems less pre forgiving than others.

Phil

[Kubi]

Agreed on the need for a (very) good pre, but with a good pre I love my SM57. Whenever I need a little more grit & texture, it's one of my favorite mics.

The SM57 also really benefits from a in-line pre, like the FEThead.

[baanes]

Agreed on the Audix i5 being stellar.

I just got a pair of Beyerdynamic M201s. They sound really great on everything I've tried with them - trumpet, upright bass, even worked ok for acoustic guitar. I hear it's a favorite snare mic, and even makes a good overhead, but I don't usually record drums.

Also have a Heil PR30 that is pretty good. It sounds a little like an RE20, though less warm, and seems to work well in places I've used an MD421 in the past. Maybe I'll get a chance to compare them this weekend.

[philbrown]

Also have a Heil PR30 that is pretty good. It sounds a little like an RE20, though less warm, and seems to work well in places I've used an MD421 in the past. Maybe I'll get a chance to compare them this weekend.

I'd like to hear what you results are on that. I've run into quite a few praises for the Heil mics but have never gotten to use any. They especially seem to come up for electric gtr micing.

The SM57 also really benefits from a in-line pre, like the FEThead.

I think I need something like that for my Sennheiser 441. It sounds good but is really low output. My API mic pre is the only one I have with enough gain for my wife's voice (pretty quiet). There's another one called the Cloudlifter also.

[mhschmieder]

I bought the Heil models and promptly sold them both (PR30 and PR40?). They seemed very grainy and undetailed to me, like Shure SM series mics. To me, capturing the performance is the most important thing, regardless of whether a mic has a spectrum response that is ideal for one purpose or another.

I may have had faulty mics (though they were brand-new), but I detect the same characteristics in other people's shootouts. I tried them on guitar and bass cabinets, various drum kit pieces, and woodwinds. Couldn't find a single application where they came remotely close to any of my Beyerdynamic, Sennheiser, E/V or Audio-Technica mics.

The Beyerdynamic series is more of my all-purpose go-to dynamic mic collection. Not usually my top choice for any application, but always a good match, and sometimes (such as the M88 for hard rock male vocals) one of their mics lands in the top spot. The M201TG used to be my favourite snare mic and still is for jazz. It's a reasonable choice on amps too, as well as winds/brass. But I have a lot of mics so usually pick others first.

[Prime Mover]

I'm surprised to hear anyone talking about small/medium diaphragm dynamics for vocal recording. I always found things like SM57/58 to be very lacking, harsh, and problematic for vocals. They're fine live because of their feedback handing and general physical robustness, but I would never think to use them for their sound, and I didn't think anyone did. I only recently started thinking about large diaphragm dynamics like the SM7, but am still weary of their ability. To me, dynamics just have a really exponential signal-to-distance falloff that makes ever slight movement painfully obvious and distracting. When I'm singing into a dynamic, I feel locked in. With a condenser, i can back off and have a lot more freedom. But maybe large diaphragms tend to have less of this effect, i have yet to use one (though I'm ordering one for work).

[baanes]

Re the Heils- I had previously only used them once, when the sound provider for a show recommended them on guitar amps. I thought they sounded good on that, though kind of dry, and without as much low-mid oomph as a 421 or 57 - I think they're lacking in proximity effect. But overall it seemed clearer in the highs, didn't require much EQ, and worked really well for that application - an interesting operatic performance with both acoustic and amplified instruments, so the clear highs and more even midrange helped keep the guitar from dominating the mix, but still articulate. Based on that experience I wouldn't reach for it for a huge overdriven guitar tone, but I think it would work well on something a little cleaner or more delicate. I also tried it on toms, and thought it was great during soundcheck - really clean and puncy - but I hardly used the tom mics in that show.

I bought one last month and used it on cello in a live show, in a difficult and very resonant hall, with large acoustic ensemble with monitors. Live cello is always a pain, I'd tried a 414 in hypercardioid first but it was feedback-prone and had to get so close to the instrument that the tone was extremely unbalanced. the Heil got me an even tone that allowed the cello to cut through the dense texture of pianos and marimbas when needed - again, the tight pattern, solid rear rejection, and lack of proximity effect were handy. The sound was not my ideal classical cello sound - it felt too dry, again - but it worked, and would have been great in a pop or rock context. That said, I'm purchasing DPA clip-on mics for this stuff in the future, since the most natural and usable live string sounds I've gotten are a 4099 up close mixed with a LDC a little further off. Nothing else comes close.

Anyway, this is all live work, so it's a completely different ballgame than studio - The 414 would have sounded much better on cello at the proper distance. I've played around with the PR30 a bit at home but haven't put it in front of anything serious yet.

I will probably try it again this weekend on bass clarinet, and I'm bringing a 421 which I usually use for that to put them up side-by-side and compare. It's in a really nice room, so should be an interesting comparison.

[philbrown]

I'm surprised to hear anyone talking about small/medium diaphragm dynamics for vocal recording.

Really?? I know Steven Tyler for one has used 57's in the studio. Stevie Nicks used a 441 for years both in the studio and live and recommended them to other singers as well. I know there are others I've read about in the past but can't name any names off the top of my head. Some singers can overpower a condenser mic. Also sometimes a condenser mic can simply be too hi-fi for the genre or intended vocal sound. I've found dynamics can work well (sometimes) for BG vocals when you want a bit of grit/cut instead of hi-fi sound. To me it's all about what works for a particular singer in the context of the song/genre/intended sound. I just cut some vocals the other day where our drummer and I go back and forth singing alternate vocal lines in the verses and then sing harmony on the choruses. I used an AT4047>Great River for me and a 441>API for him. He has a super-deep resonance to his voice and the 441 roll-off in the middle position sounds great on him and helps match up with my voice better. A condenser mic on him generally just gives me more of what I don't want.

[wylie1]

When I heard of the Chilli Peppers using a SM7 I found allot of studios using it for male rock vocals.
I tried it for my vocal attempts and I find it fits much better in the mixes.
To me its about the clarity your looking for sometimes I don't want it.

[philbrown]

When I heard of the Chilli Peppers using a SM7 I found allot of studios using it for male rock vocals.
I tried it for my vocal attempts and I find it fits much better in the mixes.
To me its about the clarity your looking for sometimes I don't want it.

Good article here about the SM7, including Bruce Swedien using it on Michael Jackson on Thriller. Pretty good endorsement!
http://recordinghacks.com/reviews/tapeop/shure-sm7/

[Kubi]

Yeah there's tons of great vocals cut with dynamics - small and large. Bonnie Raitt often uses SM58, as does Bono. And man, Stevie Nicks' sound through the 441 is a thing of magic.

As mentioned earlier, a great pre does make all the difference... if you can't find *any* use for your SM57, ever, at all, under any circumstances -- you may want to look at your pre.

[kgdrum]

I have been contemplating getting a SM7B from seeing all of the raves.
I'd be using for male vocals with a Great River ME-1NV,has anyone here used these together? Is it a good combination?
Thanks.