Delivering stems vs. Pro Tools sessions

[mdh721]

Just curious as to what the expectancy is re: score delivery today. I've never had a problem just delivering timestamped bwav stems, but I'm wondering if down the road I'll need to look into picking up Pro Tools solely for delivery purposes. Do most dub stages expect it?

Thanks!

[MIDI Life Crisis]

I've been exporting timestamped OMF files for PT sessions (layback for feature films) and the L.A. engineers I work with couldn't be happier. Everything lines up perfectly. The only thing I noticed was that if I do a crossfade between audio tracks, it is not always interpreted correctly in PT. But if I do individual fades per track they're fine.

Audio levels and changes are exactly as I do them in DP. I don't consolidate soundfiles as I want the option to extend them if needed - especially given that the crossfades sometimes can be wonky.

I don't deliver stems as I never trust that the editor has any sense of musicality unless I know them well and that they are actual musicians and audio guys. Also, I always insist on being in the final mix session to be sure sync is perfect and nobody decides to "re-orchestrate" my music by messing with stems or processing in a way that is not consistent with my intent.

Hope that helps. I know some producers insist on stems, but fortunately I haven't had that happen to me in a while and hope it never happens again. I friggin' hate doing stems and prefer to do my own mixing for the most part.

[bralston]

"Standard" or "what is expected" and usually even in the contract for most films with any serious Dub Stage mix going on is the following: Stems (usually high percussion, low percussion, strings, brass, wood winds, electronic/synth, anything that will stick out like guitar, etc...) and to deliver those stereo stems checker-boarded in a Pro Tools session by reel. Checker-boarding means grouping the stems into 2 groups and alternating tracks used in the session every other cue. So if you have 8 Trks (4 Stereo pairs) then you would deliver 16 Trks in the Pro Tools session with cue 1 using top 8, cue 2 using bottom 8, cue 3 using top 8, etc.....

Also...it is preferred to not limit or "master" cues so full dynamic range can be used and mixed in context of the film's sound design and soundtrack. If you brick-wall limit or use other mastering techniques for delivery it will seriously limit the volume and power a film mixer can get with your cue once he tries to mix it into a film.

For a CD of a film score....master and limit all you want. But for the actual film delivery, don't.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

For major releases, which I currently don't score unfortunately, no doubt stems would be required. But wouldn't an OMF with every track separated work as well? It seems that would be more flexible?

And I totally agree, no mastering or printing of plugs such as reverb, EQ, compression. The mixing studio will probably have much better facilities for that as well as monitoring.

I guess I'm just lucky I don't have to deliver stems any more. At least not for my current client list.

[bralston]

But wouldn't an OMF with every track separated work as well? It seems that would be more flexible?

If the stems are not assembled in Pro Tools...then yes..an OMF or AAF of the same material would be the way to give it to the mixer. It is best though to not give them the multi-track. It is too much. Sometimes dozens of tracks.

Yes...it feels like it is going in that direction. But really they just need the most flexibility. With surround sound mixes getting more complicated...it really is in the best interests of the composer to deliver stems so they can be mixed properly and the mixer has the best chance of getting the cues loud and clear in a scene. Without the stems...if music or a part of the music is in the way of dialogue or a key sound design element...they will just turn down ALL of the music. And that is not good. So...give them the flexibility and they can keep the score nice and loud across the sound field.

As for them tweaking stems to virtually re-write cues on the dub stage...it happens. But then again...it is their music. They own it. And frankly...I take the approach that if they do it...it is usually for good reason and works out...and in the end...I will get the credit anyway. So...I have to distance myself from the cues emotionally...let them go and just let it all unfold. Movies are collaborative after all.

A few cues on Crooked Arrows for example were changed at the Dub Stage. But in the end...I felt the changes worked and perhaps even better. It was just a different take on things. On the SDTK CD though...the cues will go back to the way they were originally 'cause I have more control of that product.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

I hear that. I don't do buyouts and retain ownership of my work. Fringe benefit of working with indy and archives. I pretty much have total autonomy regarding my scores and the mix.

The other part I don't generally subscribe to is "loud." But again, I'm not doing studio features at this point. If they ever ask me to, then I'll do what they say and if they pay enough, sure, they can own the music... I'll cry all the way to the bank. Oh wait, I already cry all the way to the bank!

[mdh721]

Very helpful, thanks guys! Sounds like I'm fine just doing stems/OMF for the time being. If I get bigger project that require Pro Tools delivery then that'll be the time to jump into getting Pro Tools.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

It also depends on who you're delivering to/and for. My guys at Chace by Delux are happy to take OMFs and mix it all there. Again, these are not major studio releases, but they are for commercial DVD releases. No dialogue usually, just music and silent films, so stems are not as critical, but if they were I know these guys would still take an OMF and I prefer that for even more flexibility. Not only could you reduce the tymp under a word but increase the BD to accent an explosion behind it. Ultimately, stems are just pre-mixed tracks.

[Kubi]

I usually print out stems for each reel from top to bottom, with head and tail pops, checker boarded like Brian describes if they 'touch', although often times it ends up not being necessary. I ask whether they prefer WAV or AIFF before printing.

Yes, this way there's a whole lot of silent audio in the files, but sync is absolutely idiot-proof. And Boy do I like idiot-proof...

I also deliver old-fashioned track sheets by printing the sequencer window of the DP project containing the complete assembly for each reel - complete with markers and TC numbers for in and out. Easy to do in DP, and engineers love it.

And I actually like it when we can remix the stems on the stage, bc sometimes SFX or foley gets added that I had no idea about, or things just end up sounding differently when the whole thing is complete and mixed (vs. just working w production audio as I do while composing), and being able to lower that shaker or EQ that melody or thin out that bass without mucking up the other tracks can really make a world of difference...

[ironchef_marc]

What's better OMF or AAF to send track to Pro Tools?

Also I noticed that saving as either disabled tracks still get saved and loaded in PT. Is that normal? I wish there was a way to save in OMF or AAF with just tracks that have audio on them.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

I believe that AAF includes fades as an event, where OMF gives you the option to compute the fades as OMF effects or regions but this line seems to blur a little. OMF in PT requires the OMF translator. Not sure about the AFF. The OMF files from DP to PT sometimes have CROSS fades do not translate well and some fades may have to be redone. It may also depend on how the PT end translates. Generally, bring both is what I do. Doesn't cost any more other than the time it takes to export the files.

[bralston]

I also highly recommend you communicate with your film's mixer or sound designer a few days before and do a "test" OMF/AAF delivery. (Who ever you will be delivering your tracks to). Pick a small section or single cue so the test file will be small and can be dropboxed easily and output the OMF/AAF and see if they can open it on their end as a test. And if the tracks line up in the correct place and all open correctly, you are good to go with the same settings for the whole thing. I have one sound designer friend I have worked with on several films now and we still do a test with each other before final delivery. Some of those settings are so picky when outputting an OMF or AAF for PT. (Quantize to frame boundries?, OMF fade events? interleaved, non-interleaved? embedded files....referenced files??) It all makes my head hurt and it is best to test delivery from your system to theirs on a small sample without assuming that the final will just open. Sometimes is does...and sometimes it does not depending on those settings and how their system is set up on their end.

[ironchef_marc]

You are right Brian lots of settings indeed! I did just that in fact to test it. Mind you these are stems I send to the music mixer. So no fades or automation, just a fair amount of tracks (every instruments and sound is isolated) and but needs to be at the right TC position. Looks like either OMF or AAF works well for my case and I choose embedded so it's tidier. I just wished it wouldn't save disabled or empty tracks as I have to manually delete them from my template which is a bit of a drag. I wish there was a function in DP like "delete empty tracks" or something.

[amplidood]

The best way to start is always do a "Save As" and add "stem prep"/"omf prep", or whatever applies. Then you can delete any disabled tracks/folders/VI's, remove unused soundbites (NOT DELETE), and do whatever you need to in order to get the session ready. The original will stay intact and you can always start there again if need be.

[ironchef_marc]

Exactly what I do except I have a couple hundred tracks nestled in folders and makes it tedious to delete unused tracks.