Subcardioid microphone polar patterns -- anyone use them?

Here's where to talk about preamps, cables, microphones, monitors, etc.

Moderator: James Steele

Forum rules
Here's where to talk about preamps, cables, microphones, monitors, etc.
Post Reply
User avatar
mhschmieder
Posts: 11282
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Annandale VA

Subcardioid microphone polar patterns -- anyone use them?

Post by mhschmieder »

I had never heard the term subcardioid until today, when Shure announced new polar pattern capsules for their KSM9 mic.

Here's what a subcardioid polar pattern looks like:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Polar ... rdioid.png

I'm curious if anyone has used a mic with such a pickup pattern, and what sorts of applications they might be good for.

Off the top of my head, acoustic piano seems like a potential application, as it's almost like a semi-elliptical half-flattened omni.
iMac 27" 2017 Quad-Core Intel i5 (3.8 GHz, 64 GB), OSX 13.6.1, MOTU DP 11.31, iZotope RX 10
RME Babyface Pro FS, Radial JDV Mk5, Hammond XK-4, Moog Voyager

Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35
Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, Johhny Marr Jaguar, 57 LP, Danelectro 12
Eastman T486RB, T64/V, Ibanez PM2, D'angelico Deluxe SS Bari, EXL1
Guild Bari, 1512 12-string, M20, Martin OM28VTS, Larivee 0040MH
User avatar
HCMarkus
Posts: 9712
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:01 am
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Rancho Bohemia, California
Contact:

Re: Subcardioid microphone polar patterns -- anyone use them

Post by HCMarkus »

Halfway between a Cardioid and Omni pattern means less directionality and less proximity effect.
User avatar
mhschmieder
Posts: 11282
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Annandale VA

Re: Subcardioid microphone polar patterns -- anyone use them

Post by mhschmieder »

Right; that's why I'm thinking it would be good for acoustic piano close-miking.
iMac 27" 2017 Quad-Core Intel i5 (3.8 GHz, 64 GB), OSX 13.6.1, MOTU DP 11.31, iZotope RX 10
RME Babyface Pro FS, Radial JDV Mk5, Hammond XK-4, Moog Voyager

Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35
Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, Johhny Marr Jaguar, 57 LP, Danelectro 12
Eastman T486RB, T64/V, Ibanez PM2, D'angelico Deluxe SS Bari, EXL1
Guild Bari, 1512 12-string, M20, Martin OM28VTS, Larivee 0040MH
User avatar
mikehalloran
Posts: 15134
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:08 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Sillie Con Valley

Re: Subcardioid microphone polar patterns -- anyone use them

Post by mikehalloran »

Anyone with a continuously variable pattern via a separate box may have used one without knowing it.
DP 11.31; 828mkII FW, micro lite, M4, MTP/AV USB Firmware 2.0.1
2023 Mac Studio M2 8TB, 192GB RAM, OS Sonoma 14.4, USB4 8TB external, M-Audio AIR 192|14, Mackie ProFxv3 6/10/12; 2012 MBPs Catalina, Mojave
IK-NI-Izotope-PSP-Garritan-Antares, LogicPro X, Finale 27.4, Dorico 5.2, Notion 6, Overture 5, TwistedWave, DSP-Q 5, SmartScore64 Pro, Toast 20 Pro
User avatar
mhschmieder
Posts: 11282
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Annandale VA

Re: Subcardioid microphone polar patterns -- anyone use them

Post by mhschmieder »

Good point, Mike. :-)

Other than this new capsule from Shure, the only dedicated subcardioid microphone I see on the market is a gooseneck mic from Audio-Technica:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audi ... microphone

This one is specifically designed for talkback, but this pattern might also work well for conferencing/lecterns/etc.
iMac 27" 2017 Quad-Core Intel i5 (3.8 GHz, 64 GB), OSX 13.6.1, MOTU DP 11.31, iZotope RX 10
RME Babyface Pro FS, Radial JDV Mk5, Hammond XK-4, Moog Voyager

Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35
Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, Johhny Marr Jaguar, 57 LP, Danelectro 12
Eastman T486RB, T64/V, Ibanez PM2, D'angelico Deluxe SS Bari, EXL1
Guild Bari, 1512 12-string, M20, Martin OM28VTS, Larivee 0040MH
User avatar
mhschmieder
Posts: 11282
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Annandale VA

Re: Subcardioid microphone polar patterns -- anyone use them

Post by mhschmieder »

I talked to some people at work about this, and they feel it's more of a marketing thing overall, as most omni mics aren't uniformly omnidirectional anyway. That is, they tend to have a bit of flattening and broad attenuation (as opposed to directional attenuation like the cardioid family of pickup patterns).

I'd have to pore over more polar pattern specs than I care to spend time on right now, to verify this is the case. Surely measurement mics (such as the old B&K's, or DPA's) are True Omnis.
iMac 27" 2017 Quad-Core Intel i5 (3.8 GHz, 64 GB), OSX 13.6.1, MOTU DP 11.31, iZotope RX 10
RME Babyface Pro FS, Radial JDV Mk5, Hammond XK-4, Moog Voyager

Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35
Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, Johhny Marr Jaguar, 57 LP, Danelectro 12
Eastman T486RB, T64/V, Ibanez PM2, D'angelico Deluxe SS Bari, EXL1
Guild Bari, 1512 12-string, M20, Martin OM28VTS, Larivee 0040MH
baanes
Posts: 114
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2006 7:45 pm
Primary DAW OS: Unspecified

Re: Subcardioid microphone polar patterns -- anyone use them

Post by baanes »

I think the Schoeps, Neumann, Sennheiser high-end modular systems all have "wide cardioid" capsules, which seem to be what you're talking about. Since they're differentiated from the "regular cardioid" models I don't think it's a gimmick. My guess would be like yours, that you get a wider pickup and more natural response than a full cardioid.

There's a mic from Line Audio in Sweden that's cheap and much praised in the usual online forums that is also a subcardioid. I have no personal experience with it, but have considered trying it for some $200.
User avatar
mikehalloran
Posts: 15134
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:08 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Sillie Con Valley

Re: Subcardioid microphone polar patterns -- anyone use them

Post by mikehalloran »

The CAD M179 has a continuously variable pattern for those who want to fool with it on the cheap.

http://www.cadaudio.com/M179.php

Street price $129.95

http://www.americanmusical.com/Item--i- ... MgodQxQAwA
DP 11.31; 828mkII FW, micro lite, M4, MTP/AV USB Firmware 2.0.1
2023 Mac Studio M2 8TB, 192GB RAM, OS Sonoma 14.4, USB4 8TB external, M-Audio AIR 192|14, Mackie ProFxv3 6/10/12; 2012 MBPs Catalina, Mojave
IK-NI-Izotope-PSP-Garritan-Antares, LogicPro X, Finale 27.4, Dorico 5.2, Notion 6, Overture 5, TwistedWave, DSP-Q 5, SmartScore64 Pro, Toast 20 Pro
User avatar
mhschmieder
Posts: 11282
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Annandale VA

Re: Subcardioid microphone polar patterns -- anyone use them

Post by mhschmieder »

Hmm, worth a look as that is a well-loved mic anyway. Warren Dent of Zen Pro Audio and Alan Moon of Front End Audio recommend it on toms, but I typically have not liked condenser mics for close-miking duties on drums. Nevertheless many use the M179 for other purposes as well, including overhead pairs in Blumlein for acoustic instruments. It's worth picking at least one up to play with; I had never noticed it has the continuously variable polar pattern feature. It could be worth it for the education alone.
iMac 27" 2017 Quad-Core Intel i5 (3.8 GHz, 64 GB), OSX 13.6.1, MOTU DP 11.31, iZotope RX 10
RME Babyface Pro FS, Radial JDV Mk5, Hammond XK-4, Moog Voyager

Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35
Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, Johhny Marr Jaguar, 57 LP, Danelectro 12
Eastman T486RB, T64/V, Ibanez PM2, D'angelico Deluxe SS Bari, EXL1
Guild Bari, 1512 12-string, M20, Martin OM28VTS, Larivee 0040MH
User avatar
mikehalloran
Posts: 15134
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:08 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Sillie Con Valley

Re: Subcardioid microphone polar patterns -- anyone use them

Post by mikehalloran »

Being a big fan of M+S and Blumlein, it's nice to see a well regarded multi-pattern mic for a buck-thirty. The variable pattern is icing on the cake and that it does so without an external box is way cool.

Just because I probably don't need it doesn't mean that I won't buy an M179.
DP 11.31; 828mkII FW, micro lite, M4, MTP/AV USB Firmware 2.0.1
2023 Mac Studio M2 8TB, 192GB RAM, OS Sonoma 14.4, USB4 8TB external, M-Audio AIR 192|14, Mackie ProFxv3 6/10/12; 2012 MBPs Catalina, Mojave
IK-NI-Izotope-PSP-Garritan-Antares, LogicPro X, Finale 27.4, Dorico 5.2, Notion 6, Overture 5, TwistedWave, DSP-Q 5, SmartScore64 Pro, Toast 20 Pro
Post Reply