Do's ans Don't's for a Crash free DP

[celestial]

It seems fairly obvious that people use DP in such different ways that getting a consensus is near impossible. A few people have reported no problems whatsoever, however it does also seem clear that a lot of people are experiencing serious problems with 6, and this can't be imagination. Although .02 fixed some the worst bugs, in my experience there is still unstability when a project gets more complex. In relatively minimal projects 6.02 can be very stable, though probably not as rock solid as 5.13 was. But for example, in the job I am working on now, I have around 30 tracks in MachFive2, 8 in Omnisphere, 8 in Play, plus lots of plugins on audio tracks, and DP becomes unstable and erratic. With some careful deletion of unwanted VIs, chunks, and sounds, I'm back at a place I can work, but it was getting very difficult. It seems as soon as you get above 3.7GB of virtual memory (being used by DP), and over 60% of CPU load (in the Audio Performance window), things start to get somewhat rickety.

The 4GB virtual memory limit per application seems to be a major problem that will have to be overcome (by Apple and/or all the major software companies), though I have absolutely no idea how. I wouldn't know where to begin.

Maybe in DP, could the V-Rack be spun off somehow to be a stand-alone application (but somehow saved in the DP file)? I keep all my VIs and heavy CPU usage plugins in a V-Rack, so that would definitely take the load off DP. If it's possible?

I haven't had to do it yet, but on particularly heavy load jobs I will be spinning off VIs into standalone mode where possible, e.g. EWQL Symphonic Strings and Choirs in Play, which eat up memory and CPU. The downside being of course that I'd have to save all the performances separately.

In the meantime, my Do's for less often crashes are:

- Keeping all plugins running in realtime.
- Restarting regularly.
- Watching the Virtual Memory usage in Activity Monitor, and CPU load in the Audio Performance window. And when things get hot I delete unused chunks, sounds, VIs etc or freeze tracks that are plugin heavy.

Plus all the normal stuff like keeping the system and drives as clean as possible (I use SOCKS). What else have I missed?

Let's hope someone from MOTU is listening. It's been a while since 6.02 - hopefully there's a major update/improvement in the works. If people like Carter Burwell are publicly saying that they are abandoning DP6, I would have thought MOTU's paramount priority should be making a major improvement. I've been using Performer since around 1990/91, and I'm far too old to switch now...

[jlaudon]

Thanks for the tips - today on a relatively light mix (around 40 tracks, mostly UAD plugins - all audio tracks), DP has crashed on me around 8 times so far. I've tried to be careful to follow the tips in this thread (helpful when using VIs), but for a basic audio track mix, i still get a lot of instability.

I'm too old to switch, but I am seriously thinking about it. Another big project (68 tracks) all audio files 3 hours long (a concert), DP slows down a lot. when I ran the same project in PT8 LE (albeit 48 tracks totally), totally responsive and quick...

(I'm writing this while DP is restarting, time to keep on mixing )

[felicopter]

Alright, here is what I found out:

Be careful when you come back from the soundfile menu.
Meaning - take a breath after returning to any other window
and don't click to much, before things are loaded again.

DP6 in my case crashes if I click to quickly
espacially after changing windows.

[sschachner]

For me, about 98% of DP crashes are when I am in the sequence window editing audio and moving quickly. If I just made an edit to an audio segment, and the computer may still be processing it and I double click to put the curser at an earlier point, it crashes. It's weird that this never happens in the main tracks view or MIDI view, only sequence, and almost always when I'm moving the curser back to an earlier point, rather than later. I'd say this happens approx. 2-4 times a day. Unfortunately, slowing down and letting the computer finish thinking is the only thing that seems to avoid this. Anyone else have this happen a lot or know of anything to minimize it? If you aren't OCD about saving, this would really suck!!

[zed]

For me, about 98% of DP crashes are when I am in the sequence window editing audio and moving quickly. If I just made an edit to an audio segment, and the computer may still be processing it and I double click to put the curser at an earlier point, it crashes. It's weird that this never happens in the main tracks view or MIDI view, only sequence, and almost always when I'm moving the curser back to an earlier point, rather than later. I'd say this happens approx. 2-4 times a day. Unfortunately, slowing down and letting the computer finish thinking is the only thing that seems to avoid this. Anyone else have this happen a lot or know of anything to minimize it? If you aren't OCD about saving, this would really suck!!

This used to happen to me regularly, until I realized that it almost always happened when I was editing tracks that had plugins on them. I finally came to the conclusion that it was probably an issue with pre-rendering, and turned it off. Since then I have reduced these kind of crashes by probably 90%. Definitely running all of your plugins in real-time in DP6 will reduce your crashes. If you are still in DP5 (which you should please include in your signature) then it could be that the same is true in DP5 if you run your effects plugins in real-time.

Having said that... even with pre-rendering off there are times which DP will just bring up the beachball of death when you were doing nothing other than editing a MIDI note. But I swear you will see a lot less of this with pre-rendering off.

I will be getting DP7 later in the week, so it remains to be seen if this issue remains true in the new version. Hopefully we'll be able to turn pre-rendering back on again if DP is more stable.

[Frodo]

For those who are having trouble with getting things to run in Snow Leopard, this might come in handy.

Many thanks to mwalthius for pursuing this and sharing with us.

The original thread can be found here:

http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtop ... =1&t=38708

Fortunately, MOTU tech support was able to resolve this issue, with the following instructions:

************

Go to Applications > Utilities and open Terminal. Once there, type cd / then press return. Next, type ls and press return. This will allow you to see a list of programs authorized to run on your computer.

Next, type rm Auth-DigitalPerformer\ 6.0 and press return. Check to make sure it is removed by typing ls and pressing return to list the authorizations as shown above.

For clarity, I will list the Terminal commands in the order they are to be executed:

cd /

ls

rm Auth-DigitalPerformer\ 6.0

After you have verified that this file is no longer on your system, quit Terminal and go to Applications. Open the Utilities folder and run Disk Utility.

In Disk Utility, select the system drive and click the option to Repair Disk Permissions. After this has completed, restart your computer and launch DP with the installer CD in the drive. Enter your name and Keycode to reauthorize DP.

[Hesseman]

First, I'd like to thank all of you for posting. I don't feel so alone in the DP crash arena any more. I love DP, LOVE IT! But can not handle it much longer. Daily it crashes. Almost every time about 4 -5 hours in, BAM! (DP 6.03) It could be caused from simply moving a MIDI note, to the play back whipper getting hung up (speaking of, does any buddy have a preferred setting for this in the Studio Setup?) to clicking somewhere in the Sequence Window where DP was a little testy. So my question is this...

Obviously PT 8 was a huge update. Unfortunately an HD2 or 3 setup is super expensive!! Like OK Avid, we get it. To those of you who have used PT HD (which I had a 002 years ago and can't remember back that far) is it as buggy as DP? I know for a fact Logic has it's problems as well. Friends have called me up in a river of tears from crash's and so forth. But PT, is it the stable monster now? No more living in fear that at any moment DP is going to kick you in the ass? Maybe one day I could actually quit my sequencer program from the Finder as I do normal programs and not have to Force Quit every freaking time

Is it worth saving for half a year, buying a PT HD system and saying good bye to DP?, no more crashes? It will be sorely missed, but I will evolve.

[Frodo]

First, I'd like to thank all of you for posting. I don't feel so alone in the DP crash arena any more. I love DP, LOVE IT! But can not handle it much longer. Daily it crashes. Almost every time about 4 -5 hours in, BAM! (DP 6.03) It could be caused from simply moving a MIDI note, to the play back whipper getting hung up (speaking of, does any buddy have a preferred setting for this in the Studio Setup?) to clicking somewhere in the Sequence Window where DP was a little testy. So my question is this...

Obviously PT 8 was a huge update. Unfortunately an HD2 or 3 setup is super expensive!! Like OK Avid, we get it. To those of you who have used PT HD (which I had a 002 years ago and can't remember back that far) is it as buggy as DP? I know for a fact Logic has it's problems as well. Friends have called me up in a river of tears from crash's and so forth. But PT, is it the stable monster now? No more living in fear that at any moment DP is going to kick you in the ass? Maybe one day I could actually quit my sequencer program from the Finder as I do normal programs and not have to Force Quit every freaking time

Is it worth saving for half a year, buying a PT HD system and saying good bye to DP?, no more crashes? It will be sorely missed, but I will evolve.

Dude-- post your computer model, and app and OSX versions in use.

If your livelihood is computer based, then living with some 'fear' is always going to be an important issue. Thats what forums are all about. Do tell more...

[Hesseman]

Of course, sorry Frodo

Can I gripe for a sec? Does it seem to me that no sooner did DP 6 come out that DP 7 was close on it's heels? They didn't even work out some of the basic bugs before the new paid upgrade. I know this economy sucks right now, we're all suffering, but spending a few more months fine tuning your sequencer MOTU might have reduced this post from 11 freaking pages to only a few. I mean did we really need a native guitar VI? Guitar Rig III has that prett locked up....

I say this from the heart.

[zed]

MAC OSX 10.5.8
2.8 ghz Quad Core Duo
6 Gigs Ram

Interesting. That is the same computer model and RAM that I have. And I have also had a lot of trouble with DP crashing. I wonder if there is a connection.

But then again, there are others on this forum with that setup who seem to have very few problems at all.

If it is some strange issue with the hardware, you might well experience instability in any other DAW that you try as well. I feel your pain.

[SansImage]

First, I'd like to thank all of you for posting. I don't feel so alone in the DP crash arena any more. I love DP, LOVE IT! But can not handle it much longer. Daily it crashes. Almost every time about 4 -5 hours in, BAM! (DP 6.03) It could be caused from simply moving a MIDI note, to the play back whipper getting hung up (speaking of, does any buddy have a preferred setting for this in the Studio Setup?) to clicking somewhere in the Sequence Window where DP was a little testy. So my question is this...

Obviously PT 8 was a huge update. Unfortunately an HD2 or 3 setup is super expensive!! Like OK Avid, we get it. To those of you who have used PT HD (which I had a 002 years ago and can't remember back that far) is it as buggy as DP? I know for a fact Logic has it's problems as well. Friends have called me up in a river of tears from crash's and so forth. But PT, is it the stable monster now? No more living in fear that at any moment DP is going to kick you in the ass? Maybe one day I could actually quit my sequencer program from the Finder as I do normal programs and not have to Force Quit every freaking time

Is it worth saving for half a year, buying a PT HD system and saying good bye to DP?, no more crashes? It will be sorely missed, but I will evolve.

Thank you Hesseman for your post, I agree with you 110%! I have the same system as you, same love, same gripes & same exact sentiments as you. I Love Digital Performer (DP, not MOTU - Customer Service sux) but these daily crashes, the instability of DP6 is a gamechanger for me. With all the work hours I've lost from DP6 crashing this past year, I should get a free DP7 upgrade. Or at least some kind of medal

I was also really pissed when I saw that DP7 was on its way while I was just checking to see if a stable update to DP6 was out yet. From the reports I've read, It seems like MOTU just fixed the problems with DP6, added a few bells & whistles, and are trying to squeeze $200 out of me!

Well, unfortunately it worked. I'm gonna do some research and if DP7 is as stable as it seems at first glance, I'm going to upgrade. But it's just so I can finish the work I have pending using software I'm familiar with. After that MOTU and I are finished. It hurts me to say that, but they lost me. After pouring thousands of dollars into their company, they abandoned me by coming out with DP7 before DP6 was usable.

I don't expect another DAW to be completely crash-free, I just expect to be valued as a customer. Thanks to everyone in whose posts I've read similar experiences to mine, with the daily crashes & the disaster that has been DP6.


[FWIW - I've tried doing almost everything in this thread and DP6 still crashes unexpectedly - sometimes in the middle of playback, when my hands are off the mouse. Besides, It shouldn't be a job within a job just to keep your DAW from crashing. Seeing my friend work on a session in PTHD yesterday reminded me of how it should be.]

[daniel.sneed]

I'm sad to hear about your bad experience with DP6.

My setup has been very stable. One or two crashes a month. Only when doing heavy and fast things at once.

BTW, on my setup, DP7 is really smoother, more stable and responsive than DP6.
I've always spent some reasonable amount of time to keep everything as clean as possible in this setup.

And this thread has been great on getting informed about this subject.

[Hesseman]

SansImage,
I hear you Bro. I'll make this short and sweet. Did you upgrade to DP 7 yet? And if so, is it working better? Thanks. From what I've been hearing, Logic seems to be pretty solid right now.

[songsmith]

I upgraded to DP6 from DP7 hoping for relief from crashing (and also looking forward to the new plug-ins). I like the some of the new plug-ins, but the upgrade provides no relief from crashes. DP7 crashes regularly. I recently upgraded to 7.02 hoping for a fix, and it's just as bad. I'm at my wit's end. I have used DP since version 2.5 in OS 9. The last time I experienced stable performance was with DP 3.0 in OS 9.

I'm asking anyone who has a stable experience with a modern DAW to recommend an alternative because I need to get my project finished. Should the user be responsible for keeping the app from crashing? I don't think so. The app should be responsible for keeping the user's requests under control. I'd rather have the app lock down the functions that would cause a crash than to allow me to crash the app and possibly corrupt my session.

[Hesseman]

I can't believe it... DP7 is in no way more stable than DP6!? I'm done. It's time to start saving the piggy bank again. Logic looks to slow and cartoony for me. The only other choice is the mother ship, Pro Tools and with Pro Tools 8 things look pretty good. I don't want to settle with LE and use a lower end sound card (I love my Rosetta 800) so it's to an HD2 rig. It's expensive I know, but life is short and shouldn't be spent in fear while working on music. By late Spring early Summer I'll be starting a new chapter. God, it feels good just to say that.